• Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Mirirai

Pronouns: She/her

Occupation: Sovereign Artist | Visionary Healer
Website: www.mirirai.com & www.ayedefy.com
Credits: “Black Mirror: Smithereens” “Russian Doll” If Pretty Hurts Ugly Must Be A Muhfucka

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

I am a multi-dimensional artist. My mediums are usually theatre and television. What started me on this beautiful journey is a love for performing. I started as a baby dancer, and then an athlete/musician while growing up in Massachusetts. Having spent the majority of my adult life as an actor, I feel more aligned now to call myself an artist and return back to the full complexity of my artistry, which includes musical theater, dance, and writing. I like to be in the soup of collaboration. Making things with other human beings. I haven’t worked with an animal yet. Someday… But my background is mostly in devising collaborative theater and new play development, with a tinge of musical theatre.

When did you set out on your current career path?

When I got fired. 

Oh, okay! Do you want to dig into that? You don’t have to.

I’m only where I am now because I went and dug deeper into myself and who I am. I’m a performer and I am a storyteller. And it took me “getting let go” from a regional play in 2019 and being really confused and sad to get to where I am today. It was pretty traumatic. And I say “was” because I’ve grown. Then, I began an undefined journey of figuring out who I was without work. Flying out to Budapest in 2021 for an onset gig was the first time I’d been on set in two years. So it does feel like this current path that I’m on is perfect despite how grueling it was – and is – on my nervous system and on my sense of self-worth. Having given a lot of myself to an industry that had – unbeknownst to me – been whispering about the flaws in my character and then unceremoniously being forced out of a production, I was like, Gasp! “What do I do now?” And then I really had to give myself a bunch of ego deaths. Not because the ego doesn’t serve, but because I wasn’t understanding and cultivating the clearest, kindest, sovereign use of my power and my voice. I wasn’t seeing my own worth. And that’s a roundabout way to say, “I’m so glad I got fired and that my castmates sent me off with love and prayers”. It’s totally a villain origin story with a happy ending.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

I have guiding principles: I believe in integrity, love, and respect for all of the creatives. I think my guiding principle for saying yes to things right now, is that my spirit has to be moved by the story. The character that I’m being asked to play has to feel like there’s room for all the colors that I bring to my daily life to be brought to the screen or the stage. I will not compromise my mental or physical health for this career anymore. I also believe that we tell ourselves stories to live; ever since day one in the cave. Now we’re here in 2021. Many things have changed. A lot of things haven’t. I’m really invested in community and how we help our communities thrive by letting others tell their story and bringing those individuals – marginalized or otherwise – that are historically cut out of their own stories back into the narrative to say, “I know you’re there. You were there! They tried to erase you. But no, you were there!” I’m really about bringing light to a lot of the dark.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

I’ve been a director, an assistant director, front of house staff, administrative assistant for various theater and nonprofit theater institutions, and a dramaturg. Usually, when I’m assistant directing, there’s movement involved. As an actor, I’ve worked closely with choreographers, dialect coaches, and musicians. I’ve also been a Producer and facilitator of short film projects. A lot of times myself and other creatives had to put together the resources to get folx to fund a project. When I started in New York, before I had an agent, I sold merch. It’s one of my favorite parts of my life, selling merchandise for Broadway theatres. Now I’m on an equity and inclusion committee working closely with executive leadership at institutions.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

That it’s a job. Back to getting fired! I know people are fired all the time, I knew that it was possible for me. And when it actually/finally happened to me without a clear reason… I had to work through my anger about that situation before seeing it now as a blessing in disguise.

We need rehearsal so that when we get ready to do the thing, whether we’re saying “action” on set, or first preview, we know what we’re doing. The job is to tell the story and the job is to keep each other safe, while we’re in the space, whether that space is a soundstage or at Playwrights Horizons. I want people to understand that this is work, and what I now believe is that auditions are unpaid internships. But I think when I come into a space where I am asking questions so that I can do my job, it has been perceived as, “I want to be right and I am unhappy here.” I just have a different way of working. I work differently than you, I have a different method. My method is not your method. You have a different process than I do. I think everyone kind of wants everything to be all neat and sweet and cute. And then we’re on a step and repeat saying “happy opening”. No, it’s a process. And then after opening, we still have to do the show. Especially if you’re talking about theater. Then I think what’s even more daunting is when you’re doing a film or a TV show, you can’t change anything after that. It’s done. So I hope you rehearsed! Because that’s it. That’s the end. It’s going to get edited and released. And I hope I gave them all the colors and left it all out there. And I trust that there was something on every single tape because I was prepared for work.

Auditioning and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

One of my pitfalls is not trusting my intuition, which reflects in my life, too. I’m a bit of a tryhard. Because I care. I try really hard to create full characters, even if I’m given 48 hours to put something on tape. My other pitfall is still learning how to say “no” to auditions because it either doesn’t excite me or I don’t want to create the time. Recently, a dream role came in to audition for and I just kept saying no when they kept extending the deadline because I just didn’t feel healthy. I didn’t really want to enter that character’s psyche. Which brings me to the pitfalls of actors in general. It’s like, how dare we say “no”? I actually think we would have a healthier industry if people asked the questions, “Does this really excite you?” “Do you really want to take this on?” Our collective pitfall is I don’t think we take care of ourselves enough because we’re so passionate about the craft and storytelling and we cut ourselves open for the chance to be seen, delve into a character, and get paid to do so. I no longer think we have to exist in that bleeding heart space in order to tell good stories.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

Pre pandemic, I loved self-tapes. I really enjoyed them! I felt like there was freedom to throw 1,000 things at the wall. Look, we’re actors, we have to get used to looking at ourselves and liking what we do. And I think it’s a practice.

One of my dislikes right now for self-tapes is that I don’t feel like it’s a representation of the energy I bring to a space, especially having undergone immense spiritual and emotional growth. I can put on the makeup, change my hair, or change my clothes. There are so many variables and factors that contribute to an actor being that “Yes” to the folx on the other side of the table or Zoom screen. When I say yes to an audition, I think, “Yeah, it’s me!” Which isn’t to say that it can’t be someone else. Moreso, “Yeah, I could do this.” I’m not seeking validation asking “Can I do this role?” But sometimes with self-tapes, I don’t think they give us enough space to explore the characters. Sometimes you don’t get breakdowns. Sometimes you only get 24 to 48 hours. So right now, it still feels like there’s just a scarcity and a rush. For me, I want to be as clear as possible about what I say “yes” to.

As self tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

My advice is to come in expecting that the old days will be behind [you]. To make sure that your virtual setup is exactly how you want it to be. And use the time in the virtual waiting room to really breathe. I think it’s breathing, understanding that there are now even more variables than before, and a lot of them have to do with technology. And those are the worst variables.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I really gravitate towards people that I think artistically would label themselves as working class. Back to the whole, “it’s a job thing”… People who are able to understand that label in the spectrum of the performing arts, of the entertainment industry, have usually performed at least once in a blackbox somewhere off, off, off, off, off-Broadway. There is still this weird stigma towards community theater which my peers and I are trying to change. I believe that working-class artists can still occupy an elite Academy Awards esque space without compromising their ideals and dreams. And those are the people that I gravitate to and want to weave my web with.

I have worked in other service industries and I believe entertainment is a service and essential. One of my first jobs was sweeping movie theaters and selling popcorn; I’ve honestly done it all. Then during the pandemic, I made friends with my grocer (shoutout to Carmen from Smart & Final), because a part of me was like, “you know what, if the government doesn’t think I’m essential, maybe I’ll just work at the grocery store because there’s no shame in that.” I want to work with people who understand that paradox. But back to interactions with fellow performers; it’s mostly, “Can we party? Can we dance?” It’s really basic for me. I want to have a good time while telling stories.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I am not in such a delusion to think that I have all the answers. I don’t know. But I know that we’re slowly and steadily working towards something that excites us to be a part of. I’m thinking a lot about AA. And I have a lot of friends who are on their sober journey. I’ve been to one AA meeting. I have a deep love for people that are on that journey in that particular way. But the one step I’ve been thinking about a lot is “making amends”. I think we can truly make amends by building the future we want to see. By saying, “I actually cannot change the past, what I can try and do is build and give someone else the tools to do better.” To give someone else resources and to take a step back and say “no” or “I’m not healthy.” Personally, I don’t want to build a future where I’m just saying “yes” out of scarcity or ego only to get fired again…this time publicly.

I hope, I wish, and I’m excited by this feeling I have that people are gonna start getting “discovered” again by just being themselves. The world is going through some apocalyptic cycles right now so I have a feeling that people are going to be out there living their life, or tik-toking it, and get discovered on a beach somewhere and shoot into the mainstream…which as we’ve seen with the cult of celebrity has its pitfalls. As life-changing and exciting as that can be, it does concern me for the health of the individual and the craft of acting. I’ve kind of adopted my personal philosophy of “my life is my audition”, and for better or for worse I’ve gotten jobs from people looking at my Instagram. Anything is possible. That being said, – especially for those starting out – I want auditions to feel like safe spaces to express your perspective on character(s) and less to do with your follower count and audience reach.

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

Accessibility. I think in-person auditions are primo but I also want everyone to have options. I think it’s cool that we’re finding new old ways (because Zoom has been around for a while, right?) to create access for those without the ease of coming into an audition. It also allows for the casting net to be wider.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

Ask for help. I think we all need to be comfortable asking for help in all capacities. I think a lot of people are ashamed. I mean, in certain areas of my life, I do not ask for help. You know, I’m not holier than thou about it. But I’ve really learned this last year to just ask a friend… or Google man. There’s so much information. Heidi Marshall has an amazing blog. She’s amazing. And she’s such an advocate for actors, and artists of all levels. So I think it’s really just about shooting your shot. And saying, “Hey, I need help. I think you can help me.” Don’t downplay yourself. Just do it!

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

Say I’m the casting director. I’ve got the writer with me. I got the director with me. I ask the writer, “Top of your mind, who were you thinking of when you wrote this? Cool. Director, top five actors you thought of when you read this [script]?” Start there. Start at around 15 top-of-mind actors. And then after that 15, throw in a couple wildcards for good measure. Maybe ask the audition reader, “Do you have some friends that you think would want to do this play?” Then from there, open the pool to other ideas. What I’ve seen and experienced is that some casting offices make it seem like the pool is wide, when it’s not. So I think it’s high time we drop the illusion of nationwide searches for every project and begin with more clear and concise casting ideas that come from the creative team/lead artists.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

So back to my 15, I think it would be really awesome to include someone that self-identifies as neurodivergent, a person that is “out” in terms of sexual orientation, and separately “out” in terms of mental health diagnoses. I’m here for people being like, “I’m high functioning depressive”, let’s go! It’s me…I am people. Have one person in that 15 who uses sign language, whether it’s American or otherwise, to see what it inspires in the actor and creative team. Even if the character is intended to actually vocalize those words, you can have subtitles. If the actor can sign and the audience can read, how amazing! It’s exciting to me to get creative in auditioning and casting. We’re behind. With race… we’re still talking about race. Personally, I know someone’s always gonna be writing a story about somebody Black. Whether I get hired or not is a different story.

Are people gonna be writing a story about someone with autism? And then is the person hired going to be someone with that lived experience? Although getting specific about race, ethnicity, and even sexuality is a wonderful and continued industry-wide goal, I think we can expand our view of what it means to be accessible beyond skin color and ethnic background. Personally, when it comes to the sexual orientation conversation, I still don’t know if I want my hiring to be dependent on if casting and the general public know who I may or may not be sleeping with. Alas, I do include my own ignorance in this conversation on evolving our industry. Let’s be real, despite being Zimbabwean, I can only name a few Zimbabwean actors. And even though my name is not household or what have you, I’m more interested in creating space for people who haven’t had half of the opportunities that I’ve had. Lastly, I have not yet played my own nationality. So although I can be a “diversity hire” in certain rooms, I sometimes get confused by what my role as an artist is supposed to be. Because I think “Man, I spent all this time learning all these other accents, not just trying to find my own. What is that about?” Does it come from a lack of opportunity or because I’m not waving the Zimbabwean flag at every audition I go to in order to enjoy the privilege of crafting a character irrespective of where I was born? I think the conversation is much deeper than the ones we’ve been having. But at least we’re having them!

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Liz Carlson

Pronouns: She/Her

Occupation:

Artistic Producer, New York Stage and Film

Personal occupation descriptor: Creative Producer and Director for plays and musicals in-development

Links to Liz’s Work:

Personal website: www.elizabethjcarlson.com

NYSAF website: www.newyorkstageandfilm.org

Credits:

Selected artists supported as Creative Producer: Keelay Gipson, Jessica Huang, Monet Hurst-Mendoza, Brian Quijada, Nygel D Robinson

Selected artists supported as Director: Jahna Ferron-Smith, The Lobbyists, Catya McMullen, Don Nguyen, Max Vernon

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

I am Liz Carlson (she/her). I am currently the Artistic Producer for New York Stage and Film. I’ve been on an artistic journey for as long as I can remember, with music being my main foundation. My siblings and I were taught to sing and play piano from a very young age. Visual art was my first true love, though. My great-grandmother was a painter and she lived across the street from me until I was 15, so I took lessons from her. I even studied Art History in undergrad and my job throughout college was painting the sets for the theater department. The performing arts were just a hobby at first — never an intended career path. Until I discovered directing, and then the alignment of visual, verbal, musical, and physical expression clicked for me and I knew I found my path.

When did you set out on your current career path?

I didn’t realize I wanted to pursue a career in directing for the stage until the beginning of my senior year in college. And I didn’t know a damn thing about it — I didn’t have the vocabulary, the training, the sense of how one pursues it professionally… So I decided to apply to some graduate schools and attended The New School for the Performing Arts’ MFA in Directing program. During my two summers between classes, I interned at New York Stage and Film and Signature Theatre (NYC), which helped me determine that I wanted to be in proximity to new and developing plays and musicals. Those internships also introduced me to creative producing, which is what I do now full-time. After graduate school, I was a freelance director and producer for about 3.5 years. And then I was the Artistic Director for Naked Angels for 3 years. And then I returned to New York Stage and Film where I’ve been since 2016! (phew!)

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

My guiding principle as an arts professional is very similar to how I try to be a parent: It is not my job to tell you how to create; it’s not my job to tell you what your voice is. It’s my job to see you as you are / to hear your voice and create an environment in which you and your voice thrive. I want to help you be most authentically you in this moment and for this project. My drive persists as long as there are stories to tell — as long as there is the need to examine and express questions about the human condition.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

As a creative producer, I am in proximity to many other practitioners and artists: playwrights, directors, actors, choreographers, designers, stage managers, technicians, literary agents, casting agents, technicians, fellow producers…

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

I find producing — especially for new and developing work — to be incredibly creative and inspiring. And I’ve also earned an appreciation for how mindful one needs to be in that position. It’s a privilege to be in a position to help artists and their projects along their trajectories — one the comes with responsibilities that must be respected: creating space where process can happen effectively; thinking about communication and what it means to give “notes”; what are the avenues of access?; in what way are we creating harmful restrictions?; how do we create opportunity?; are our structures and resources equitable?

Auditioning and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

I’m hesitant to place any kind of “blame” on actors when it comes to auditions. I believe it is an organizations’/the producers’ responsibility to be transparent about needs and expectations. Though I do understand that that’s not always the case. So perhaps I’ll offer the thought that if anything about a role/project/organization/opportunity is unclear going into an audition, do what you can to request information up front. And if there’s any hesitancy about being transparent about anything, be mindful of what you’re potentially getting into.

Let’s talk about self tapes! Self tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I think self tapes can offer a lot of advantages: they don’t require a commute or an uncomfortable wait in a lobby for a process that’s probably running behind schedule; they allow actors to be comfortable in their own space and shoot the tape when they’re ready; and they might help humanize this community even more–much in the same way as Zoom has. On the other hand, not everyone has private, comfortable space accessible to them, and self-tapes require a level of technical proficiency/wi-fi access, which not everyone has, so there is an inherent level of inequity.

As self tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

A virtual audition doesn’t allow for the in-real-time human interaction that allows you to personalize one another (on both sides “of the table”). In any audition, I’m interested in what makes the actor more comfortable/authentic. For a self-tape, if that means letting me see a bit of your real life, great. Neutral background? Okay! A little banter at the top to say hello, sure! (Granted: this is just me!)

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self tape, what would it be?

Auditions have always been an odd concept to me because they feel like the antithesis of what we’re often trying to do in theater — it’s such a singularly focused process for an artform that is meant to be collaborative. So maybe that’s just a preface to say: I may not be the best person to ask about this. BUT. I think you should always remember to breathe. And take whatever steps you need to feel grounded and connected. And ultimately remember that it’s okay if it feels artificial…because it is!

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I am in the fortunate position that my network is constantly expanding by way of script submissions, artist introductions, and multiple developmental processes that NYSAF supports on an annual basis. In an audition setting, I love getting to meet new artists and to get “reintroduced” to artists I know by watching them interpret new work. I am inspired by curiosity, point of view, and an ability to acknowledge what is vulnerable/not fully formed yet.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

The past year has been devastating for our community — between personal loss, job loss, financial hardship, trauma, the persistence of racism, anti-Blackness, and white supremist systems despite the global and industry reckoning, the unfathomable narrative of whether artists are “essential” or not, etc…so it’s hard to feel “excited” per se. But I do want to feel hopeful about some things: I think it’s a good thing that we literally are unable to go back to “before” — we will not be able to simply forget the past year that we had, and I am hopeful that there are enough individuals working during this pause to restructure before work actually begins in earnest. I am hopeful that because we learned that theater can be made more accessible by way of digital mediums, we hold onto those avenues — for meetings, auditions, performances, audience engagement, etc. However, I do believe that there will still be people and institutions that just want to pick up where we left off, and that will be a painful process to get through.

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

I suspect that virtual auditions will definitely remain for at least part of the process. They offer access regardless of geography, which can ease financial burdens and reduce travel emissions. They may allow for initial screenings to be done in a more efficient way that’s less burdensome to the actors. But again, there are technical requirements of virtual auditions, so we have to ask ourselves if we’re going to offer alternative audition opportunities for individuals who do not have access to the technical resources, and/or will we provide them?

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

If someone is not confident in their own technical knowledge, I would encourage them to reach out to their community of fellow artists and see if someone will offer a lesson or support — there are so many artists who have intersected with technology now, I’m hopefully that a friend/colleague would be willing to help. If it’s a financial matter, my hope is that the artist could express a transparent concern to the organization/producer and that they would receive the proper support.

The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts’ Tech Kits for Performing Artists

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

My preference would be to always host group round-robin auditions, so actors have the opportunity to work in collaboration with other actors. And they would be framed as working sessions, in which actors are encouraged to make different choices, ask questions, be vulnerable. I would want them to resemble a rehearsal day, really. And I believe actors should receive a financial stipend for auditioning, since they are technically working.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

Yes, it does. This is a huge question that needs to be considered in every single facet of art-making: education, “apprenticeship”, leadership, administration, curation, budgeting, fundraising, community engagement, communications, etc etc etc… I believe there are a number of ways the industry can evolve, and that those efforts need to have similar things in mind: the process must be truthful and authentic to the institution, and not driven by any version of virtue signaling; the process must be iterative and one that can accept challenge and growth; the process — especially by PWIs/cis-centered/heteronormative/etc spaces — must be cognizant of the labor that has been done already and be able to recognize and acknowledge that without taking away from others. In terms of how we apply this to the audition process, I think we need to always be asking ourselves evolving questions, such as: who has access to this audition and who does not? Why are certain people restricted? How do we open it up? Who is hosting the audition? Who is “in the room”? Might this be a harmful/triggering space for anyone? How do we build in support structures? Is there anything about the communication process that might discourage anyone from bringing their full, authentic self? … These questions are by no means definitive. With every process, we must be willing to listen, rethink and adapt so we may be on a constant journey towards progress.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Michael Goddard

Pronouns: he,him

Profession: Talent Agent, CGF Talent, founded January 2012

Biography Questions

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

Michael Goddard.  After studying Marketing in college, I started performing and acted professionally in Musical Theatre for 16 years.  I did Broadway, National Tours, a European Tour, a Cruise Ship and many regional theaters.

When did you set out on your current career path?

After that I started in the agency business and have been an agent for 15 years since 2006.  I always knew that becoming an agent would be a great marriage of my love for the art and my degree and understanding of Marketing and Business.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

As an arts professional I strive to help make the dreams come true for my many clients.  I’m extremely passionate and active in figuring out goals and dreams and creating opportunities for actors to walk into the right rooms.  I love when the business works correctly like a machine and allows everyone to do their jobs in the ways that they know how.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

In my profession as an agent, we work closest with Casting Directors in order to create the opportunities for our actors to audition for projects.  We work closely with actors who we represent, and we work closely with General managers and producers to come up with the best deal possible for our clients.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

What I wish was more widely understood is that having an agent isn’t a guarantee invite into audition rooms.  It’s the actors job to always deliver in the audition room, to gain fans and bring their best work into every opportunity.  It’s my job to build business relationships with the casting directors and gain trust so that I can get you in the rooms.

Audition Industry Questions

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Biggest pitfalls that actors make with auditions is when they self-sabotage the audition, they start to do the casting director’s job and talk themselves out of the roles.  They lose confidence and belief in themselves and that can be seen so clearly from the other side of the table.

Let’s talk about self tapes! Self tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I like good self-tapes and I dislike bad ones.  I like that the actor has the chance to “get it right” on their own time, but I don’t like that there isn’t an opportunity to show your authentic self like when you used to walk in the room and really share your energy with casting directors and directors.

As self tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

My adivce:  Get out of your head.  Give a full out performance of that character as you would do on your opening night or shoot date.  Don’t keep thinking about what you think that the casting director or director wants, and just give the performance.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self tape, what would it be?

Show what makes you special not what you think they think is special.

How do you expand your “talent rolodex”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I’m looking for an actor who truly knows who they are and is so comfortable in their own body. To see an authentic artist is so inspiring and makes me excited to see what may be next for them.

Looking to the Future Questions

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I’m most excited about arts and auditioning coming back and having more in person opportunities. The concerns I have are that many of the self-taping opportunities have been a reliable and successful way of auditioning. This can mean that self taping will probably be a larger part of our future than it was in our past.  Making art and auditioning is a collaborative experience so I’m excited about people making art in this world today as we’ve continued to process and experience so much life in 2020 and 2021.  I’m excited about opening the opportunities to be inclusive of all actors and telling stories that have never been told.

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

Virtual auditions will definitely continue to be a part of the auditioning process.  People just need to get used to it, but nothing beats an in person meeting to really understand the energy of the artist.  Also direction and playing is always better in the room.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

It doesn’t take a lot of money to make a good self tape.  It takes a lot of skill and brains. Figure out the lighting, figure out a background and figure out the sound.  This can all happen with an iphone.  Just do it smartly.  The excuse of money isn’t necessary (although it can be helpful) to create a great self-tape.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

If I could rebuild the audition process — it would be me suggesting my actors for the jobs and then they would get them.  That would be my most favorite process ever!

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

The Arts industry needs to focus on telling new stories, creating new heroes and really finding the artists who are ready to tell them and create them.  Marketing and Business decision makers in the arts need to understand that there is a business and an audience for all of these different stories.  Expand their views and ideas and the industry as a whole will be very surprised, and will thrive like never before.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Stephanie Klemons

Pronouns: She/Hers

Occupation: Choreographer & Performer

Website: www.StephanieKlemons.com

Credits: Associate Choreographer & Original Cast Of Hamilton Original Cast of In The Heights Choreographer of Viral “Time of your Life” Super Bowl Commercial featuring Eli Manning & Odell Beckham Jr

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

I’ve loved dance since before I can remember. I don’t try and superimpose some adult justifications; I have always just been passionate about dance. I began as a dancer after graduating college with two degrees : Genetics/MicroBio & Modern Dance. I knew nothing about making it and just did what I knew best: I took class. In class I met my first agents, booked my first commercial and met some folx who would become my second family. A steady trajectory from that which I knew, dance, to that which I wanted followed. I made my Broadway debut in In The Heights three years after moving to NYC.

When did you set out on your current career path?

My sophomore year in college. I was working as a camp counselor over the summer on break. I had signed up to be a dance counselor and when I arrived at camp they made me aware that they overbooked dance and came up with a new role for me, “Resident Choreographer of the Summer Musicals”. I choreographed 4 musicals that summer including Godspell & A Funny Thing… I had never done a musical before that summer even though it was my dream to be on Broadway since before I can remember. I was 19.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

I am teaching a course at Rutgers and this was the first thing I made my kids do. I have been in love with dance since before I can remember. The ability to speak with bodies allows me to connect with the world around me and create catharsis for humans and my goal is to continue to do this in a way that is pioneering and thought-provoking, garnering just enough attention to have a platform to highlight the importance of art in the lives of terminally ill children. www.katiesartproject.org

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

Directors, Stage Managers, Music Directors, performers

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

That choreographers own the intellectual property and associates pave the road for that river to flow.

Auditioning and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Trying too hard to appear friendly. Not being prepared, no amount of talent can get you out of that mistake.

Let’s talk about self tapes! Self tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self tapes? What do you dislike about them?

That I don’t have to travel into Manhattan 1000’s a week. I live on Long Island and have for 10 years.

Many NYC performers we talk to feel you NEED to live in extremely close proximity to midtown. What has made you choose Long Island and have you ever felt living there affected your career negatively?

I get that. It would make my life easier and my quality of living FOR ME worse. I choose to create longevity by living by a beach, another dream of mine. So i can’t always get drinks after work; my liver thanks me. I miss being able to pop into the MET or eat at 1 of a zillion cafes in spring.

As self tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I’m new to the self-tape world myself. My advice follow newsletters like “Mel Mack Acting” and “one-on-one” to get helpful, up-to-the-minute tips.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self tape, what would it be?

Get your lighting right.

How have you set up your lighting for self tapes?

A ring light really sets apart those that are “self-taping” for a living  and the rest. Also if you’re like me and you have no empty walls, get one of those pop up backgrounds to make the lighting worth it! Can get that all for under $30 on Amazon.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

Authenticity, authenticity, with a side of authenticity.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

The pandemic has cracked open the possibilities for creatives of tomorrow. I’ve written up proposals for preposterous ideas that would have never come up prior to our expansion into the virtual space. I can’t wait to see what the kids who grow up in This do.

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

There is NO SUBSTITUTE for in-person auditions. But maybe a first round weed out. I don’t prefer them other than a reduced commute.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

The self-tape equipment you need is available on Amazon for $40 or less. If you cannot manage to find $40, find $20 and just buy the light, skip the mic and pop-up back-drop. Or ask a friend or family member for a $40 loan. Believe in yourself, and invest in yourself. If you’re really unable to find $40, shift your focus on getting pandemic specific work and build up your funds while the industry is relatively quiet.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

We would throw out all the exclusive language we use. Dance auditions would welcome trans and non-binary performers in their language and execution. Using words like “exotic, and ethnic” would be replaced with what the creatives actually mean. The teams that cast would be representative of the shows they are casting.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space

for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

It starts with opportunities being available to be cast in which starts with creatives and management who looks like the Broadway of today. The Hamiltons & new Oklahomas and Once on This Islands, (I am not suggesting casting hire live-stock) would be led and built and would benefit the members of the communities which they are portraying.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

CELESTE DEN

Pronouns: She/Hers

Occupation: Actor/Producer

Links to Celeste’s Work:

WEBSITE

REEL

IMDB

Credits:

David Henry Hwang’s M. Butterfly at the Cort Theater on Broadway, directed by Julie Taymor

World Premiere of Jung Chang’s Wild Swans at American Repertory Theatre and Young Vic in London, directed by Sacha Wares

World Premiere of Frances Ya-Chu Cowhig’s The King of Hell’s Palace at Hampstead Theatre in London, directed by Michael Boyd

 

Getting To Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Celeste Den, I’m a performer and occasional dabbler in producing. My artistic background is Theatre. What started me in performance was a one act play at the end of my senior year in high school. I still remember the feeling of letting go in that audition – the rediscovery of a childlike sense of play. The opening night of the one act was my 18th birthday, and it went perfectly. I remember when the lights blacked out, and everybody started applauding, I looked up in the dark and thought “Well, this is fucking IT!” And when I went to college a couple months later, I was like “Okay…Theatre!” but having never taken a Theatre class I didn’t know anything. I didn’t know what upstage was, what downstage was, I didn’t know what scene work was, I didn’t know anything. I was just like “I’m a Theatre major now. This is what I’m gonna do.”

When did you set out on your current career path?

Pretty much as soon as Theatre was in my consciousness – feeling like this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. From day one at my undergraduate, I got involved in every aspect of Theatre making, not just the acting bit. I took classes in set construction, lighting, costumes, props – you name it – and did production hours for all of them. I wanted to learn everything. I assistant stage managed and was able to observe the rehearsal process that way before I was ever cast in a mainstage show. I also got super involved with the student producing organization – acting in them, yes, but also producing them and producing events for the organization.

I was also lucky that there was a regional theater by my undergraduate school, a small LORT D theater. I went to see shows there. I started to meet the people there. I did a dramaturgy internship at that regional theater which evolved into assisting the Artistic Director as well as a few weeks of company managing. It gave me a lot of insight into what a life in professional Theatre might look like.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

Those are questions I come back to regularly, and the answers continue to evolve. I don’t know that I’ve ever had a particular “mission statement” other than “I want to be an actor.” But then I became an actor, luckily a working one, and was like “and now what?” I started because I loved it. It gave me a sense of belonging and a sense of being able to contribute, regardless of socioeconomic background or race. It was a way for me to examine myself – the way I relate to myself, to other people and to the world. All fairly self serving reasons to be honest. At some point though, I started to ask “What greater purpose does it serve? How am I being of service? There’s got to be more than just making myself feel good, right?” The answer I keep coming back to –  although to some extent it can sound like just a sexy grant proposal soundbite, but it doesn’t make it any less true – is that storytelling – hearing stories and telling stories – is the best and maybe only way to practice empathy, and to generate empathy where there may not be any. I firmly believe that. And it may not be brain surgery and I may not be saving the world from climate change and other disasters, I may be only playing pretend for a living, but I think on a human to human, cellular level, there is no greater service I can provide than to move someone intellectually, emotionally, spiritually – giving them insight into a perspective that they didn’t have access to before, or reflecting and validating someone’s experience of life and making them feel less alone. That’s an invaluable service to humanity, I think.

But I’ve also recently come to realize the flip side, which is that it can’t just be all about the greater service either – it still has to be tied in with what it does for me. So I literally went all the way around. I went from “I do it just because I love it” to “No It has to have a greater meaning!” to “No, no, no, it has to be both. It has to be both simultaneously.” Otherwise, why bother?

As someone who’s worn many different hats in the industry, what are the roles you most identify with?

On most things I put: Actor/Producer, though to be honest I feel mad imposter syndrome calling myself a Producer. Firstly, it’s been a while since I’ve done any producing, and secondly the projects I’ve produced have been so eclectic – from a large scale concert for a string quartet to radio commercials, non-scripted TV shows to 99 seat musical theatre workshops to a site specific play in my house. I’ve tried a little bit of everything throughout the years, so I really feel more like a jack of all trades than anything else.

I think I just really enjoy being part of the creative process and getting things done – the feeling of accomplishment. I’ve found that the difference between Theatre and Screen work is that, as an actor, you’re not really let into the creative process much for Film and TV unless you’re there from the beginning as a series regular/one of the main characters. The only time I’ve felt the same “work family” feeling that I love most about Theatre while in the Film and TV industry was when I worked in production. I’ve never felt it as a co-star or guest star on set. I’d love to feel confident enough to just call myself a CREATOR one day.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Speaking specifically to acting – it requires a lot more nuanced skill than non-industry people think it does. There are definitely those folks who have a light inside them and are super charismatic and they can get off the bus in LA and be like “I’m an actor now!” and make it as a huge star. But if you’re not one of those people or – let’s face it – someone who’s won the genetic lottery, acting is a fucking hard skill. Actually, even for those super shiny people it still takes dedication and hard work. In fact, it’s taken me a long time to even feel comfortable calling myself an “artist” because to me acting feels like a blue collar craft or trade. Maybe because I’m from Theatre to me it feels like a thing that you roll up your sleeves to do with your whole body, and you need the hours and years of training to develop the skills to do it well. So it really bothers me when people don’t think you need to learn how to act or put in the work. I mean no one is saying “I love brushing my teeth, I’m really good at brushing my teeth. Minnesota is a state with great dental health, I’m going to go to Minnesota, and now I’m a dentist!” You can’t just do that. I feel like people underestimate the amount of craft it takes.

Auditioning and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Trying to do it “right” is the biggest pitfall that I can speak to personally. Thinking that what you have to do is go in and give them what they want, instead of going in and doing your thing.

Let’s talk about self tapes! Self tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I love tapes. I’ve loved them forever. A lot of my big Theatre gigs started with initial self tapes which then led to follow up in person callbacks. Some jobs were booked off tape alone – for Theatre and TV – and this started back in 2011 so I’ve been doing tapes for a LONG time. It’s how I’ve managed to grow a healthy Theatre career while based in LA. Sometimes for big auditions I will do two sessions. I’ll do a casual first session just to kind of see what I’m doing, so I can watch it and be like “That thought transition doesn’t quite connect…is there a stronger perspective I can have in this moment…ah I should cheat my face more towards camera there and lift my eyeline a bit.”  And then I’ll give myself at least another 24 hrs to digest before I do the final tape.

It’s a catch 22, really. I love that I can do as many takes as I want until I get one I’m super happy with, but it also means I can fall into a bad habit of doing too many and they are all only slightly different. So now I’m still letting myself record my rehearsals as much as I want, but when it’s time to tape, I only give myself 3-5 takes.

The biggest drawback is definitely not getting immediate feedback or that little bit of redirection in the room that might make the difference in your interpretation of the material. For TV shows that have been running for a while you can easily get a foundation for that world from old episodes, but if you’re auditioning for a new project there’s only so much research you can do. You can research the creatives, production company, network/studio etc. but otherwise you’re just making choices in the dark if it’s just you and your camera. This is why having a casting director who can give you a bit of guidance and insight is worth making your way through LA traffic to be in the room. I also miss making that personal connection with the casting office and the people.

As self tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I mean, the main difference is that now we as actors are responsible for the tech. We’ve traded the commute for the tech set up. I’ve done fewer live virtual auditions than I’ve done self tapes but I set up for them in pretty much the same way. The only thing I find a little awkward is being in the “waiting room” when everything is ready to go and I’m in frame and just waiting there. I don’t know when the session will suddenly turn on and I don’t want them to find an empty frame or catch me doing some weird warm up so I feel a bit stuck there.

The biggest piece of advice I have for actors who are really new to virtual auditions is to not be afraid of the tech. Do the best you can to make sure they can see and hear you, and you can see and hear them. That’s it – just start there. With practice you can slowly figure out how to make the process more comfortable for yourself.

Self tapes might have been around for a while but virtual auditions are so new for fucking everyone – on both sides, so if you don’t know what to do just ask. If you need to adjust your camera setup after the audition has already started and they have to watch you move the camera, it’s fine. It’s fine. All good. Don’t sweat it. We’re all just figuring it out.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self tape, what would it be?

Do whatever you want. Honestly, if you’re confident that you’ve done all the preparation you can beforehand, then do whatever the fuck you want. Trust it. Be free.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I’m not great at networking honestly…I tend to attach myself to people I’ve gone to school with or worked with or have some sort of shared experience with. Otherwise I’m pretty terrible at making lasting relationships with strangers. The only way I know how to grow my network is by working and I didn’t do ANY Theatre in 2020 so now I’m like “I have no new friends!” Usually I’m drawn to people who are capable of removing their personal ego from the process. If someone can have their version of fun during the process, and they’re open, that’s the kind of energy that makes me go, “ok you’re dope let’s be friends.”

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

Let’s be positive. I’m excited that there is a lot of initiative in making the arts more equitable. But we’ll see. Because, as it is, how many people of color can afford to continue in this field? So that’s what I’m excited about and my concern. And specifically, as it pertains to auditioning, I’m excited for there to be more perspectives on the other side of the table. Everyone from producers to writers to showrunners to casting directors…people of color, women of color in those positions who can see different perspectives of the same story. I would really like that to be a trend that continues instead of falling apart because we cannot afford it economically.

Mostly I’m just hoping that we continue to carve out more room for complex characters and intersectional perspectives on storytelling. Besides being beyond tired of the pervasive White lens, I’m also tired of the generalization of black and brown experiences. Our stories don’t always have to be rooted in oppression or immigration or trauma or violence – they are definitely a part of our cultural inheritance but they don’t define our experiences. I’m still waiting for a character that speaks to all the aspects of who I am. Most of what I go out for are characters that may be similar to me in personality, but I have yet to come across any material that reflects my personal journey.

Have you thought about creating something yourself? That speaks more to your experience? Personally?

That’s what I’m trying to do right now. Failing very spectacularly at it, but I’m just gonna keep plugging away because what else am I gonna do? Keep waiting around for someone else to create a platform that can showcase me the way I want? Knock on doors for jobs the rest of my life? No thanks.

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

I think it will be a combination of both virtual and in person. For 1st reads, whether it’s for film/tv or commercial, why not do it virtually? But for callbacks, and definitely by the time you get to something like a chemistry read, I should hope they bring us in the room. I don’t even mind a 1st audition for Theatre virtually as long as callbacks are in person. I’m sure beyond the efficiency aspects in terms of creative process, there are economic forces that will dictate what combination of the two we will experience in the future.

I think virtual auditions can, in part, make opportunities more accessible in terms of casting a much wider net in an actor search, but we also have to acknowledge that there are people who don’t have access to the hardware, the knowledge of the tech, or even adequate internet connection. I don’t know that the process can ever be as inclusive or equitable as we want it to be. But, speaking selfishly, virtual auditions and self tapes mean I can make travel plans, live my life, without always needing to stay in town just in case I get an audition.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

Don’t sweat it too hard. If they can see you, if they can hear you – that’s all you need. Don’t feel like you can’t do your best if you don’t have fancy 3 point lighting or a thing on your wall to let you pull down different backdrops. I mean, if you’re into that, if that’s your hobby, if you have the resources – great, go for it. But pretty much every single person I’ve ever heard from has said “At the end of the day, if the acting and the essence are what they’re looking for, it doesn’t matter how you fucking filmed it.”

Just be smart about the things that you can do. But don’t sweat the tech – focus on the acting. Literally, the only things you have to worry about are “Can they see you? Can they hear you?” If you’re not technically savvy AT ALL – like, you’re so analog you don’t know how to use a smartphone then…I don’t know. Get somebody to help you, I guess.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

If I had the answer I would have already reinvented it and be a millionaire. I guess for me, whatever makes everyone work smarter not harder, would be great, as long as we can keep encouraging more humanity so everyone feels like the system, process, space, etc. allows them to feel safe enough, free enough to do their best work.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

I would get a Nobel Prize if I had an answer to this question.

For so long now the doors to opportunities, to the process of how things get made, to where the money comes from – to basically the access of knowledge – has been closed. Most of us are just wandering around in the dark looking for a door but we don’t even know what the door looks like much less how to open it. Thankfully that’s shifting but, you know, will it ever be truly inclusive and equitable? I don’t know.

For most of my life I’ve thought the solution was: we need the predominantly able-bodied cisgender white males in power to point us to those doors that they’ve had access to for forever and show us how the locks work, how we can get a key made, where the hitches and squeaks are, and give us tips on how to walk through it without it caving in on us. We need that allyship, we need them to make room for other perspectives and educate the others in their community to do the same. To a certain degree I still think that’s true, but that’s because my default is learning how to operate within the system that already exists. I’m not good at generating my own material (though I’m working on it) – I was trained to play the game. But now with the ever evolving platforms for storytelling, the innovative narrative voices coming from all different communities – unapologetically nuanced and specific in their perspectives – there are people inventing their own games left and right and that’s hella inspiring. I think about it a lot – whether we should just be like “You won’t let us eat at your table? Fine. We’re all gonna go over here and make our own table and you’re not invited.” I really, optimistically, maybe naively, would just fucking love it if it was just one big fucking table that everyone sat at. But, you know, if their table won’t make any space, all we can do is go make our own. Maybe it’s a combination of both.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Rachel Reiss, CSA

Pronouns: She/Her

Occupation: Senior Casting Director at Liz Lewis Casting Partners, Secretary of CSA’s New York Board of Governors and chair of the CSA Tech Committee

Links to Rachel’s work:  

www.lizlewis.com

Rachel Reiss on Facebook

@rachelreiss on Instagram

Credits:

2019 Heller Award Winner for Best Northeast Voice Over and Commercial Casting

(Most recent) King of Knives, Painter

 

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Rachel Reiss and I’m a Senior Casting director at Liz Lewis Casting Partners, on the NY Board of Governors for the Casting Society of America, and Chair of the CSA Tech Committee. I was a total theater kid growing up. I attended a performing arts school and saw as many Broadway shows as I could. Though growing up with parents who were lawyers, I always had a logical side of my brain that wanted to put the pieces together behind the scenes. I realized during high school that I found more gratification in being a part of putting the full production together than just being on stage.

When did you set out on your current career path?

I fell into casting very early. I was home for the summer after my freshman year of college and was looking through all of my favorite Playbills. I kept seeing the same company listed under casting. This was before casting was a known career (before the American Idol days). So not knowing much about what casting was, I called the office, asked if they needed help for the summer, interviewed the next day, and started interning the following day. I spent time exploring other professions in entertainment, but knew pretty quickly that I had already found the career for me.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

I love bringing a creative’s vision to life. Members of a production have different ideas of how they see the final product. So I love materializing that while mediating those different ideas.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

I love bringing a creative’s vision to life. Members of a production have different ideas of how they see the final product. So I love materializing that while mediating those different ideas.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

I’ve found that many don’t understand the role of casting. Our job is to find the best talent for a project regardless of where that person comes from. We do not represent talent (at least in the major markets) and we don’t benefit financially from talent. And most importantly, we genuinely want all talent to succeed. The better the talent looks, the better we look. So we are rooting for every single actor that auditions for us. We are the middleman between talent and production, so we are advocating for both sides of the production.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

I think the audition is built up to be a high stakes scary one-shot only event. But I encourage actors to try to reframe that perspective. You love to act, that is why you are an actor. In an audition, you get to act, play, and be directed by someone who really wants you to succeed. And if you are not right for one project, we will keep you in mind for another. Actors who are less fearful in the audition room, are more likely to be the ones who keep getting called in.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I love that I can now see actors from all over the world. While I did this beforehand, quarantine has scattered everyone and made “local” artists more accessible. I am personally not a risk taker, so the idea that actors had to take a huge financial risk to move to NY or LA to be considered for a role pulled at my heartstrings. But now with self-tapes, there are fewer barriers to entry. I also love that it encourages talent to do multiple takes and watch their work. That is a wonderful way to learn and improve your craft. Though I hate that actors are now being asked to not just act, but produce, light, sound design, set design, etc. etc. As casting, we want you to focus on what you do best – act.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

Hard wire in your Internet!! Even if your Wi-Fi is good, it will most likely fail when you need it most. This gives you another level of security. The main difference between in-person and virtual casting is the chemistry. You will never be able to match the relationship building and chemistry you feel in the same room whether that is with casting, other actors, or with the production team. That is one of the greatest joys of casting, and why I love it so much. So I don’t think in-person will go away for that reason. But in the meantime, you don’t have to worry about gas, parking, subway, etc.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

HAVE FUN! We want you to be the best person we’ve seen all day. Truly.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

These both may sound redundant, but I’m looking for actors who are excited to be there, and approach the audition as a time to play, experiment and take direction. Also, I know so many professionals say this, but it’s true – strong choices. Even if those choices are wrong, it shows me you took the material, thought about it, and brought your unique perspective to the role. Again, even if it’s wrong, I am curious to see what you will do next.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I’m excited about the innovations in technology to improve the auditioning experience both on the casting and actor accessibility side. What concerns me, besides actors feeling like they need to produce, is that there will always be a socioeconomic barrier. As long as tech relies on the Internet, computers, phones, etc., there will be talented people who aren’t able to access this world easily. I am also so sad for all of the casting studios that are struggling or have gone under.

Have you thought about ways of combating this in your own work? Are there ways you see that Casting can help to open these barriers as much as possible?

Great question. In terms of actors feeling like they need to be producers, that is something I am actively trying to combat. In fact, stay tuned for a CSA panel that is in the works that will tackle this topic specifically. As for the socioeconomic issue, that is a tougher issue, especially as we live in a world where we rely on those same devices just to connect to one another. But I am trying to combat it in the small ways I can day to day. Whether that means managing client expectations so that talent can be on an even playing field with one another regardless of their setup/tech capabilities, having conversations with colleagues about the talents’ tech challenges that some casting professionals may not be aware of, speaking with casting platforms about these concerns, and devoting extra time to talent who may need the extra guidance and troubleshooting. But there is always more to be done and I’ll actively be looking for more ways to help.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

Virtual auditions/self-tapes were common before the pandemic, and increasingly so. The pandemic just expedited the upswing. I believe virtual auditions will continue after this for initial auditions/prescreens. But I think callbacks/chemistry reads will return to in-person once it is safe to do so.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

If you are a SAG member, they are offering their members help in this area. Their on-camera lab will zoom with you, be your reader, help with the upload, etc. If you are not a SAG Member, talk to casting! We want to help you focus on the acting, so if you need help with the technical details, we want to help you!

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

Great question! I’d have to think about this in more depth, but it would be based around actors having access to breakdowns/auditions without having to pay for equipment, membership, etc. But when I figure it out, I’ll let you know!

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

The more diverse storytelling and representation are, the more understanding and empathy our world will have. I’m really proud to be a member of CSA and involved with many of their awesome initiatives including open calls/classes for underrepresented artists, mentorships programs, training and education outreach to schools that are focused on uplifting underrepresented groups as well as educating students from a young age about what casting is, so that there is more diversity behind the table. There is more for me to do and learn to become a better ally, but as I do that, I will continue to advocate for diversity where I can in all areas of the industry. Casting is one part of the equation. So the more diversity there is in ALL of the roles of a production (both in front and behind the camera), the closer we will get to breaking down these barriers.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Sammi Cannold

Pronouns: She/Her/Hers

Occupation: Theater and Film director

Link to Sammi’s work: www.sammicannold.com

Recent Press:

Playbill Feature – Dori Berinstein and Sammi Cannold at Work on Theatre Reopening Documentary, Featuring South Korea’s Phantom and More

Credits:

Forbes 30 Under 30 in Hollywood & Entertainment

Evita (New York City Center)

Ragtime (on Ellis Island)

 

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Sammi Cannold and I’m a theater and film director. My journey into the arts started early as I was fortunate to grow up in a theater/film/tv family — my mom produces theater and directs film and my dad produces tv and film. So, I was always around storytelling and, in a way, it was expected that I would go into the ‘family business.’ That makes it sound a bit clinical though and really, I think I decided to go into the arts, because being around it so much as a kid, it was hard not to fall in love with stories and storytelling.

When did you set out on your current career path?

If I trace it back, I think it was when I was in a summer arts program in my town when I was 13 and we were doing a production of Joseph that I was in. The head of the arts program, who was also directing the production, had to be in too many places at once, so he would leave the room and when he did, would leave me in charge for reasons I still don’t know. So, I started telling the other kids where to go on stage and ultimately, he credited me as the director of the production and hired me the next two summers to ‘direct’ You’re a Good Man Charlie Brown and Annie. I don’t think it would be accurate to call that ‘directing’ necessarily and I’m sure whatever I did on all three shows was not particularly great, but it certainly gave me the idea early that directing was something that I could pursue and wanted to pursue. Ultimately, I didn’t seriously pursue it until I got to college and started directing for one of the student theater groups on my university’s campus.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

I don’t have a specific mission statement per se, but I guess I try to navigate everything from a place of passion for the work and wanting to make an impact. What that impact is can change from project-to-project: sometimes it’s about helping an audience work through something, sometimes it’s about inspiring an audience to action, etc., but I always try to make things that have an impact beyond my own artistic interests.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

As a director, I feel so lucky in that I get to work with basically everyone! Directors touch almost every corner of a production, so I would wager that we get the most collaborators of any position other than perhaps the PSM. So it’s hard to say whom you end up working with most closely — sometimes it’s your leading actor, sometimes it’s the PSM, sometimes it’s the associate director, sometimes it’s a designer, sometimes it’s the music director, sometimes it’s the choreographer, sometimes it’s a producer, and so on. But most of the time, it’s all of the above and then some.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Directing–particularly directing large-scale musicals–is so much about crisis management and problem solving. I say this mostly for people who are interested in pursuing careers in direction, because I think it catches a lot of us off-guard when we start helming larger productions. Yes, a lot of directing is about the art on stage and a lot of it is about leading a rehearsal process, but a massive percentage of it is being presented with problems and having to fix them. And these problems can range from having to make peace between two actors who don’t get along, to figuring out how to work with a designer who’s not meeting deadlines, to figuring out how to find a middle ground when your audience is complaining the theater is too cold and your actors are complaining that it’s too hot. And then because I work a lot in site-specific theater, I get thrown a lot of problems that are very idiosyncratic — i.e. we need to take a ferry boat to get to the performance site, but this musician has severe sea-sickness, etc. But I’ve come to actually love the problem-solving aspect of the job — it keeps you on your toes and is a bit like a detective game. I think learning to love the problem-solving and coming into the room every morning ready for problems to be thrown your way is the only way to really be happy in a job that’s so defined by constant curve-balls.

Do you have any problems that come up consistently in your work on every or most projects? If yes, do you think the issue is systemic or something else?

Not really. Because every project is so different and has such a different slate of challenges. I’d say, in terms of broad categories — time management and the balance between art and commerce are always major areas of focus — not necessarily problems — but challenges.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

This is a very specific one, but it’s one I notice all the time: actors not having comprehensive books. I tend to understand if an actor is not as prepared as I’d hope they’d be on material provided by the creative team, because oftentimes, there are unrealistic preparation periods, massive amounts of material given, or extenuating circumstances in an actor’s life (including other auditions and callbacks or rehearsals/show schedules) — I always trying to remember that actors are not being paid to audition, so while they’re trying to put themselves in the best possible light, sometimes that’s harder than at other times.

That said, every auditioning musical theater actor can and should have a comprehensive book, because that preparation can happen outside of audition and callback timelines and is evergreen/helps in any situation. So often in auditions, I’ll ask an actor if they have something ‘more pop-y’ or ‘more legit’ in their books and the answer will be no. In that case, they’re shooting themself in the foot, because those questions are fairly standard and easy to prepare for. And I’m only asking them in hopes of helping the actor try to show a side of themself that I believe they have in them and would help them get the role, but they haven’t yet shown.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I like that self-tapes can open up an audition process to actors from anywhere. On Evita at City Center, we had actors sending in tapes from many different countries in South America and Europe and it was so exciting to be able to widen our search beyond whoever was able to physically be in New York.

That said, I don’t like that self-tapes create a situation in which an actor can obsess over and tailor their performance so that we’re only seeing what they think we should see. There’s something really wonderfully raw about being in the room with an auditioning actor — and I don’t mean that in the sense of catching their mistakes. More the opposite — that you find beautiful things in a performance when it’s not manufactured and on top of that, you learn a lot about a person both from how they perform when put on the spot and also how they operate in a room/when speaking directly to you vs. through a screen.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I think the difference is fairly straightforward: you don’t get to make a connection with the actor and vice versa — the actor doesn’t get to make a connection with you. Unless it’s over Zoom instead of self-tapes, I suppose, but I’ve only ever done that once and it was tricky because of a poor connection and whatnot.

In terms of advice, I guess I’d say — don’t let the fact that you’re doing this digitally flatten the more personal aspects of how you’d normally audition. If you’re someone who normally comes into the audition room with a lot of warmth, for example, bring that with you into the virtual audition room as well. We so badly want to know who you are and what makes you special and the virtual space can really make that tricky if you approach it too clinically.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

“Hang on tightly, let go lightly.” That’s not mine — it’s Anne Bogart’s theory that she talks about a lot in relation to directing, but I think it applies really nicely to auditioning as well. Come into the room holding tight to the choices you’ve decided you’re going to make with your material and being ready to make those choices with confidence and commitment, BUT also, be ready for something that the creative team or casting director says to cause you to let go lightly of the choices you’ve made. I find it most impressive and most telling in terms of providing intel on an actor’s dexterity when they can flip on a dime in an audition and make a completely different choice than the one they came in with.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

It really depends on the show and the role. I think actors get tired of hearing that adage that we really are rooting for you when you come into the room and so desperately want you to be the right person, but it’s true!

I think I’m often also surprised by who the right person is. I may go into an audition room with a certain conception of who I’m looking for and then someone will come and knock the socks off their audition and totally change that. So, sometimes it’s that they sang the material in an extraordinary way I’d never heard before, sometimes it’s that they had a take on the character that made it fresh and interesting, and so on.

I think also something that a lot of early-career actors usually don’t know is — if you’re auditioning for the ensemble of a Broadway or Broadway-sized show, we’re almost always looking–usually predominantly except in dance calls–at whether or not you can cover a principal role or multiple principal roles. The web of coverage on a show of that size is so complex that the majority of the ensemble usually has to be able to go on for a principal. So, if you think you fit a certain principal role description, it helps to make choices in your audition that might help us to realize that.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I’m excited to get back, but concerned about so much! I’m majorly concerned about access, especially when it comes to auditioning. It was hard enough to get into the room before all this and now we’re facing a situation in which there will almost certainly be a whole new level of capacity limits in terms of who and how many people can be in the room — particularly for dance calls. So, I’m concerned about what that means for newcomers.

What do you think is the most likely outcome to address this? More dance calls? Shorter dance calls so more people can get seen?

It’s a great question and neither solution is ideal, because every call costs money and time and a shorter call could make it such that a dancer can’t fully demonstrate what they’re capable of or doesn’t get enough focus at the front of the room/the creative team doesn’t learn enough. I think the former is the lesser of two evils all things considered though. I hope someone somewhere has a third solution that magically solves it all.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer

I think that virtual auditions will certainly be more prevalent, especially because so many members of our community have now spread out across the country and the world even. I hope that that will allow us to provide more access, but at the same time, I worry that it will become a crutch that will reduce our ability to be in the room with actors for that all important chemistry test — both for our benefit and for the actor’s benefit.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

I personally don’t really care about the aesthetic quality of one’s self-tape setup for exactly the reasons you mention. I think where it becomes tricky is in relation to sound; obviously, for singers, you want to make sure your voice sounds the same way it would in the room, and I know that can be pricey and tricky.

I think I’m probably not the right person to give advice on this as I’m not familiar with the ins and outs of a self-tape setup, but I guess from a practical perspective, I’d suggest borrowing equipment from others to the extent possible if you feel yours isn’t going to put you in the best possible light.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

One thing that I don’t like about the system is the practice of asking actors to prepare a lot of material and then only asking them to perform some of it. I understand why that happens — if a creative team learns what they need to learn on the first cut and time is tight, hearing the other two isn’t necessarily a productive use of time. But I think we have to ignore that impulse and always hear all the material, because I hate the idea of an actor preparing material and then us not honoring that preparation. So, I think we also need to think more critically about what sides we give an actor ahead of a callback so that we’re not claiming hours of their lives for nothing.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

I think this answer needs a whole novel written in response to it — and not by me! But because I’m in a position of power by virtue of being a director who hires people, it is something I think about a lot, particularly this year. So, I’ll answer specifically in relation to the audition process.

I’d say most importantly — I think we need to open up the pool. The oft-heard ‘well we didn’t cast an actor of color, because no actors of color came in’ just doesn’t fly. It is incumbent on us–those with hiring power–to do the outreach to the performers and communities that we are hoping to see in our rooms, because in many cases, they have received the message time and again that our rooms are not places that are welcoming to them. It’s our job–not theirs–to change that.

Do you have any changes you plan on implementing in your own process that might help other directors on that path?

Yes! I’ve been thinking a lot about putting the onus on myself to get to know actors beyond those who are making it into the audition room — by seeing more work in educational settings, seeing more work outside of New York City, keeping an eye out for actors who are putting out their own work online, etc. And then on a project-by-project basis, working with paid consultants or specifically chosen casting directors who are familiar with amazing performers who don’t get called in as much as they should.

 

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Heidi Marshall

Pronouns: She/Hers

Occupation: Director, Independent Filmmaker, Acting Coach, Teacher

Link to Heidi’s work: 

www.heidimarshall.com

Credits:

MUSCLE: Short of the Week

Upcoming Feature: American Bubble

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

*Heidi provided her bio from her website*

After studying at Carnegie Mellon University and Pittsburgh Filmmakers, Heidi initiated and received the first directing internship at Humana Play Festival at Actors Theater of Louisville. Here, she directed Balm in Gilead and assisted John Jory, Anne Bogart, Tina Landau, and Lisa Peterson.

Heidi then completed a fellowship through The Drama League and headed to New York City, where she began working as an assistant for Bernie Telsey’s casting office. It was an “accidental” stopover in her 20s that led to a career launch: her first casting project was RENT. In the midst of RENT’s explosion into mega-hit status, Heidi became the show’s lead Casting Director—for seven years, she found and developed talent for its Broadway casts and national/international tours. Heidi also served as Casting Director for Baz Luhrmann’s La Bohème on Broadway for which the rotating cast all won a TONY Award for Excellence in Theater.

Baz’s artist mentorship led to a shift away from casting; Heidi was then hired as Resident Director on La Bohème, which had a critically acclaimed Broadway run. She later directed La Bohème for Baz at the Ahmanson Theater in LA.

Her work as a director continued when she was selected for the prestigious American Film Institute’s Directing Workshop for Women.

She returned to Broadway as an acting coach for The Color Purple and worked with Fantasia, Chaka Khan, and Bebe Winans. She also served as an Associate Director for The Adamms Family musical from development through opening night.

Today, Heidi’s directing experience spans film, television, documentary, theatrical events, regional theater, off-Broadway, and Broadway.

Her film Muscle has won 7 awards and has played at over 30 festivals worldwide, including Oscar-qualifying fests. She continues to work as a director, independent filmmaker, acting coach, and teacher.

Heidi actively champions inclusivity in front of and behind the camera. Over 4,000 actors have been taught and coached through her private studio in the past 20 years. She  purposefully surrounds herself with passionate actors, collaborative filmmakers, theater lovers, and driven artists who care about Community

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

To encourage artists to find their confidence and trust what each unique person brings to their art.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

Filmmakers

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Acting coaches and teachers put the actor first.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Not taking time to prepare the material. Self-sabotaging before the actual audition by taking prep shortcuts (especially in text analysis, running the scene with another person, setting up self tape space).

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

Like. Actor gets to work on the material in their own time and space. No commuting for everyone so there’s less inconvenience in everyday life.

Not like. Magic happens in the room. People don’t get to know each other as easily. It’s generally easier to read a personality in person.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

Hard to simplify my answers because I spend extensive time analyzing this in classes and coaching! I’d say the main differences are above.

Advice. Practice practice practice. Invest in a light and a background and get practicing. Prep. Film. Watch. Repeat.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

Make sure we can hear and see you! And then make eye contact with your scene partner off-camera. Play all of your focus to that other character. It will anchor you!

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

Word of mouth. I trust that amazing people lead me to amazing people.

When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

They’re prepped which shows their commitment. They’re into the work and love to play and change it up and keep discovering nuances. I love actors that are like shifting sands moment to moment. Always in flow.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular?

Actors are becoming more and more empowered every moment. They’re creating shows. They’re having a say in what stories and characters are represented.

What are your concerns?

I would like to see funding for the arts taken seriously in our country. Hopefully, the pandemic is bringing light to how the arts bring valuable and necessary culture and income to communities! We need to subsidize American artists in significant ways so that they can have resources to sustain their families and survive reasonably. Rarely, even before the pandemic, can artists make a living as full-time artists. Gone are the days of making a living in NYC from only theater (Broadway and Off-Broadway). The cost of living in a metropolis and solely being an artist/actor is a huge and often impossible challenge. Generally, being an actor requires outside income for any real sustainability. How can our government support the arts? I think the content created from artist commissions would be an incredible burst of expression and development in the arts.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? 

They will never go away. Here to stay. Already was happening. But now producers are justified in not needing to fly an actor in for a callback. It’s also just easier to see more people now. So probably more auditions will be available to more people.

Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

It’s finally causing the self-awareness of working the camera frame for the actor. Now they’re getting it!

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

I’ve got blogs on this! So I’d tell folks to Google and read tons of tips online.

And. Team up with others! Share resources! Equipment and being readers for each other!

Then. Start with a blank wall. Save for a light or rig the best strongest light sources you can! And use natural light from windows! Then. Save for a good smart phone with great camera and sound and the rest will be solid.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

No clue. I’m too entrenched in it to have an outside eye???

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all?

It all goes back to the stories being told. So I pass this to the writers and the ones making decisions about which projects to fund and distribute.

Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

Actors, don’t wait for the perfect role to come to you. Generate it.

 

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Dominque Kelley

Pronouns: He/Him/His

Occupation: Choreographer/ Dancer

Link to Dominique’s work: 

Dominique’s Choreography Reel

Credits:

Choreographer for Mariah Carey’s “Magical Christmas Special”

Choreographer for DCPA’s “Oklahoma!”

Choreographer for “Masked Singer”

 

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Dominique Kelley, originally from Bridgeport, CT, and I’m a choreographer, dancer, educator, and consultant. I played basketball, football, tee-ball, went to the museum weekly, but nothing held my attention like dance. My earliest memory of dance infatuation was trying to learn Michael Jackson’s “Thriller” video but being horrified by the zombie and werewolf transformations. My mother told me I would take my arm and block out the top of their bodies from view so I wouldn’t see their faces but still try to learn the choreography to the best of my ability.

When did you set out on your current career path?

I was discovered by Savion Glover and Dianne Walker when I was 12 years old. My mother “encouraged” me to bring my tap shoes to their performance and pulled some strings so I could show them my steps. Shortly after, they sent out an APB to all the dance competitions in my area and located me through one of my dance teachers at the time, Liza Minelli. I auditioned and booked my first job doing the European tour of “Black and Blue”, thus starting my dance career.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

My mission statement is “train it until you gain it” instead of “fake it ‘til you make it”. I love to train in many different genres of dance and inspire others to keep learning and research as many aspects of the business as possible. My goal is to empower others to enter the industry as prepared as possible while feeling empowered to maintain their artistic point of view.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

I love working with non-dancers. Whether actors, recording artists, athletes, or even the laymen: I enjoy translating pedestrian movement into dance pedagogy. I love educating educators also. My platform is inclusion and decentralizing white supremacy in dance as well as body positivity, mental health support, and body maintenance. Growing up, many trauma responses were “chalked up” to a rite of passage and I try my hardest to dispel that myth.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Ironically, being a choreographer is the most competitive job in the world. There are few that can actually sustain a living from just choreographing alone. The pool of choreographers is soo small so whenever you do see someone who can thrive doing this profession deserves acclaim.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

The most common pitfall that actors make with auditions is a twofer for me. Preparation is key as well as being present in the moment. Memorizing sides, researching the role, warming up, arriving on time are all important to getting into the room with confidence. After you are inside, that’s where you have to drop into character and leave all the nerves outside. Sometimes, I love to give actors notes to see how they can modify their reading, abandoning all the things they’ve rehearsed before they got there.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I love watching self-tapes because I see the best of the auditioner. One can look their best, sound their best, and do as many takes as necessary until one feels comfortable with the final product. I dislike not seeing the person in the room and getting a sense of their vibe and energy. You can’t get or give immediate feedback nor get a sense of how quickly the actor can adapt to situations which can be a bummer.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

The advice I have for people who have less experience with virtual auditions is ask for help. Many tv/film/musical theater actors you’ve seen have gotten hired for work from a self-tape. In an ever-changing world that is becoming more and more technically advanced, don’t get left behind and lose out on work that you would be perfect for. If you are someone who likes to prepare and do it one time, then do that. Do a “one and done” and send that.. After making sure you’ve checked the frame and audio first of course.. haha.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

Breathe… literally breathe. Oxygenate your brain. Slow down your pulse. Take deep cleansing breaths. Quickly meditate and go for it.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I only try to expand my network by being myself and having an honest, human interaction. Although it sounds cliche, asking people about themselves and finding common ground leads to better interactions instead of boasting, bragging, and “schmoozing”. We see right through it… And by we… I mean me… When I interact with a performer, I like honesty and confidence. Whether it’s a good day or a bad day, I love to know and see how it affects your performance and point of view in and out of the audition room.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

What excites me about the future of auditions is the thought of it coming back. The pandemic has tested everyone’s patience and perseverance so the thought of a long audition process seems like a birthday party at the moment. The reservations I have about auditions in the future are fielding expectations, especially for people not computer savvy in front of and behind the camera.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer

I believe we will keep the virtual audition process because now no one has to actually go into an office to hold the audition. Not only can people film from home but the creatives casting do not have to leave the luxury of their homes to hire talent. I enjoy virtual auditions because I can cut my audition time in half. When holding dance auditions, they can last 10 hrs. Virtually, I can take less time and get through more auditions.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

Use your cellphone. Find a clean wall behind you. Invest in a ring light with a stand if you don’t feel comfortable with someone in the room filming you. We can see through the environment if you give a riveting performance. Remember, we want you to be wonderful and get the job. We have the same goal… To hire you.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

I would love to find more avenues to source marginalized communities into the room to be seen. It starts there.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

I believe we need to meet people where we are. I have no clue how to do so but I will support the cause wholeheartedly. As someone who was found by unconventional means, I’m all for it. The more the merrier. No actor left behind…

 

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Taibi Magar

Pronouns: She/Her

Occupation: Director, Cultural Worker

Link to Taibi’s work: 

An album of the songs from Capsule, a theatre-film that premiered at Under The Radar/The Public Theater, that I co-directed with my husband, Tyler Dobrowsky, and the incredible writer/performers Peter Mark Kendall and Whitney White. An album I co-conceived with Daniel and Patrick Lazour call Flap My Wings: Songs From We Live In Cairo. Coming up on April 15 – May 9, a theatre-film, of A Play For The Living In The Time of Extinction by Miranda Rose Hall, at Baltimore Center Stage.

Credits:

Underground Railroad Game (Ars Nova)

Is God Is (Soho Rep, 2018 Obie Award)

We Live In Cairo (A.R.T.)

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

I’m the daughter of an immigrant. I’m an artist. And I’m a cultural worker. My parents were worried about me as a child, and their psychic suggested that “Taibi should get into theater.” Hilarious.

When did you set out on your current career path?

When I was 17 years old, my acting teacher told me I was a director. I visited his rehearsal room later that night, and there it was: the rest of my life.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

My work is deeply invested in the skill of Imagination. I believe this skill is the theatre’s incredible gift to culture and humanity because Imagination and Social Justice are deeply intertwined. We have to be able to imagine it in order to fight for it.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

I teach directing for my alma mater, Brown/Trinity MFA Program. And since the pandemic, I have been co-producing with my husband and artistic partner, Tyler Dobrowsky.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Just because us theater makers love what we do, does not mean it isn’t also a job. The theatre-industrial complex takes advantage of this in countless ways.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Not even attempt to get off-book. When an actor is off-book I am naturally going to find them more engaging because I can see their face. Also, make physical choices! I want to be sure you will be collaborative in generating behavior with me.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I find self-tapes are not as draining to watch as a full day of auditions. Probably just because of the amount of energy I/we give to make the actor feel comfortable (which I love to do, it just is kind of draining). But, it’s a double-sided coin, because you also don’t get that liveness, that sense of being that exists in the in-between moments of an audition.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I think virtual auditions are really valuable because it really opens up the field. Actors do not have to be in the same city, or at a specific place at a specific date/time. As someone who does a lot of work with actors of color, this is really exciting. The only drawback is that because of the framing, and lack of space or adequate sound, I don’t think virtual auditions give you the truest sense of their physicality, how much space the actor is capable of taking up. My advice for those new to virtual auditioners? Commit! I think these things are sticking around. Get the equipment that helps you make it an easy process! Do a lot of them so you can get good at it! And lastly, for me as a director, really getting the maximum amount of body in your frame is helpful.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

Treat it like a rehearsal. A well-prepped rehearsal. I’m treating it like one, so you can too.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I watch things! I go see a lot of shows, I watch as much TV/movies as I can. I keep my ears open when people talk about what they’ve seen, if they pull out a particular actor’s performance, I’ll look them up later. What inspires me? Performers inspire me when they have a point of view about the work and the world. I don’t consider actors blank slates, I don’t want them to be blank slates. I want the whole of their humanity brought to the table, what makes them giggle, what makes them enraged. I want to sense an honest connection between the performer and the material. I also wanna know you’re gonna fight for this character. There’s a great quote I use a lot from Anne Bogart: “The actor directs the character, the director directs the play.” I’m also just looking for someone who I can talk to and enjoy exchanging ideas with. We don’t get paid enough to not enjoy going to work.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I’m excited that because it is easier to submit (not limited by time or physical space) it might open the pool of actors more. However, because it’s easier to submit, I worry actors will be asked to audition more. I think actors should get paid to audition!

We really appreciate you bringing up this point. For performers there can be a lot of fear that if they turn down an audition they’ll never be asked again. In a world where actors are being asked to audition even more this could be exacerbated. In your experience is this something they should be worried about? How do you feel about performers turning down your auditions?

Oh, I don’t keep track of who turns down an audition. Sometimes I’m puzzled, if I really think the artist would be excited by the material. But I generally assume they have other things going on, or there are other offers on the table, or maybe they can’t afford to take a terrible paying off-Broadway contract. Maybe casting directors think about it differently than I do, but I certainly don’t hold it against an actor in the slightest.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer

They will be very prevalent. I predict most first rounds will be virtual/self-tapes. The things I prefer is that I can take breaks more often, and I can rewatch in order to give better notes for callbacks.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

All that technical gak helps, but the performance will shine through. Just get enough light on ya.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

I think we would pay actors to audition! It’s a hell of a lot of work. I know the rationale is probably “well, people don’t get paid to apply for regular jobs” But we’re not regular jobs! And a regular employee doesn’t work in an industry where they have to get a new job every 2-3 months! I also wish the industry worked in a way where I could spend more time with actors. Unfortunately, as it stands, to make ends meet I’m usually running show to show and barely have time for auditions. It’s a lie to pretend we can get to know each other in 10 minutes.

That’s totally true. How do you personally get to know people, and folks you want to work with, without overextending yourself?

I call or write people they’ve worked with. I have to make sure it’s someone I trust, and someone who has worked with them extensively. Usually I try to make contact with a director, but otherwise. another actor or stage manager they’ve worked with. I also make sure to have time for conversation in the audition, it’s not much but you can get a little bit of a feel of who they are.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

We need casting directors of color. Lots of them. Lots and lots and lots of them. It’s the only way. And pay people to audition! Have I said that enough???