Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Stephanie Klemons

Pronouns: She/Hers

Occupation: Choreographer & Performer

Website: www.StephanieKlemons.com

Credits: Associate Choreographer & Original Cast Of Hamilton Original Cast of In The Heights Choreographer of Viral “Time of your Life” Super Bowl Commercial featuring Eli Manning & Odell Beckham Jr

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

I’ve loved dance since before I can remember. I don’t try and superimpose some adult justifications; I have always just been passionate about dance. I began as a dancer after graduating college with two degrees : Genetics/MicroBio & Modern Dance. I knew nothing about making it and just did what I knew best: I took class. In class I met my first agents, booked my first commercial and met some folx who would become my second family. A steady trajectory from that which I knew, dance, to that which I wanted followed. I made my Broadway debut in In The Heights three years after moving to NYC.

When did you set out on your current career path?

My sophomore year in college. I was working as a camp counselor over the summer on break. I had signed up to be a dance counselor and when I arrived at camp they made me aware that they overbooked dance and came up with a new role for me, “Resident Choreographer of the Summer Musicals”. I choreographed 4 musicals that summer including Godspell & A Funny Thing… I had never done a musical before that summer even though it was my dream to be on Broadway since before I can remember. I was 19.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

I am teaching a course at Rutgers and this was the first thing I made my kids do. I have been in love with dance since before I can remember. The ability to speak with bodies allows me to connect with the world around me and create catharsis for humans and my goal is to continue to do this in a way that is pioneering and thought-provoking, garnering just enough attention to have a platform to highlight the importance of art in the lives of terminally ill children. www.katiesartproject.org

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

Directors, Stage Managers, Music Directors, performers

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

That choreographers own the intellectual property and associates pave the road for that river to flow.

Auditioning and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Trying too hard to appear friendly. Not being prepared, no amount of talent can get you out of that mistake.

Let’s talk about self tapes! Self tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self tapes? What do you dislike about them?

That I don’t have to travel into Manhattan 1000’s a week. I live on Long Island and have for 10 years.

Many NYC performers we talk to feel you NEED to live in extremely close proximity to midtown. What has made you choose Long Island and have you ever felt living there affected your career negatively?

I get that. It would make my life easier and my quality of living FOR ME worse. I choose to create longevity by living by a beach, another dream of mine. So i can’t always get drinks after work; my liver thanks me. I miss being able to pop into the MET or eat at 1 of a zillion cafes in spring.

As self tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I’m new to the self-tape world myself. My advice follow newsletters like “Mel Mack Acting” and “one-on-one” to get helpful, up-to-the-minute tips.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self tape, what would it be?

Get your lighting right.

How have you set up your lighting for self tapes?

A ring light really sets apart those that are “self-taping” for a living  and the rest. Also if you’re like me and you have no empty walls, get one of those pop up backgrounds to make the lighting worth it! Can get that all for under $30 on Amazon.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

Authenticity, authenticity, with a side of authenticity.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

The pandemic has cracked open the possibilities for creatives of tomorrow. I’ve written up proposals for preposterous ideas that would have never come up prior to our expansion into the virtual space. I can’t wait to see what the kids who grow up in This do.

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

There is NO SUBSTITUTE for in-person auditions. But maybe a first round weed out. I don’t prefer them other than a reduced commute.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

The self-tape equipment you need is available on Amazon for $40 or less. If you cannot manage to find $40, find $20 and just buy the light, skip the mic and pop-up back-drop. Or ask a friend or family member for a $40 loan. Believe in yourself, and invest in yourself. If you’re really unable to find $40, shift your focus on getting pandemic specific work and build up your funds while the industry is relatively quiet.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

We would throw out all the exclusive language we use. Dance auditions would welcome trans and non-binary performers in their language and execution. Using words like “exotic, and ethnic” would be replaced with what the creatives actually mean. The teams that cast would be representative of the shows they are casting.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space

for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

It starts with opportunities being available to be cast in which starts with creatives and management who looks like the Broadway of today. The Hamiltons & new Oklahomas and Once on This Islands, (I am not suggesting casting hire live-stock) would be led and built and would benefit the members of the communities which they are portraying.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

CELESTE DEN

Pronouns: She/Hers

Occupation: Actor/Producer

Links to Celeste’s Work:

WEBSITE

REEL

IMDB

Credits:

David Henry Hwang’s M. Butterfly at the Cort Theater on Broadway, directed by Julie Taymor

World Premiere of Jung Chang’s Wild Swans at American Repertory Theatre and Young Vic in London, directed by Sacha Wares

World Premiere of Frances Ya-Chu Cowhig’s The King of Hell’s Palace at Hampstead Theatre in London, directed by Michael Boyd

 

Getting To Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Celeste Den, I’m a performer and occasional dabbler in producing. My artistic background is Theatre. What started me in performance was a one act play at the end of my senior year in high school. I still remember the feeling of letting go in that audition – the rediscovery of a childlike sense of play. The opening night of the one act was my 18th birthday, and it went perfectly. I remember when the lights blacked out, and everybody started applauding, I looked up in the dark and thought “Well, this is fucking IT!” And when I went to college a couple months later, I was like “Okay…Theatre!” but having never taken a Theatre class I didn’t know anything. I didn’t know what upstage was, what downstage was, I didn’t know what scene work was, I didn’t know anything. I was just like “I’m a Theatre major now. This is what I’m gonna do.”

When did you set out on your current career path?

Pretty much as soon as Theatre was in my consciousness – feeling like this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. From day one at my undergraduate, I got involved in every aspect of Theatre making, not just the acting bit. I took classes in set construction, lighting, costumes, props – you name it – and did production hours for all of them. I wanted to learn everything. I assistant stage managed and was able to observe the rehearsal process that way before I was ever cast in a mainstage show. I also got super involved with the student producing organization – acting in them, yes, but also producing them and producing events for the organization.

I was also lucky that there was a regional theater by my undergraduate school, a small LORT D theater. I went to see shows there. I started to meet the people there. I did a dramaturgy internship at that regional theater which evolved into assisting the Artistic Director as well as a few weeks of company managing. It gave me a lot of insight into what a life in professional Theatre might look like.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

Those are questions I come back to regularly, and the answers continue to evolve. I don’t know that I’ve ever had a particular “mission statement” other than “I want to be an actor.” But then I became an actor, luckily a working one, and was like “and now what?” I started because I loved it. It gave me a sense of belonging and a sense of being able to contribute, regardless of socioeconomic background or race. It was a way for me to examine myself – the way I relate to myself, to other people and to the world. All fairly self serving reasons to be honest. At some point though, I started to ask “What greater purpose does it serve? How am I being of service? There’s got to be more than just making myself feel good, right?” The answer I keep coming back to –  although to some extent it can sound like just a sexy grant proposal soundbite, but it doesn’t make it any less true – is that storytelling – hearing stories and telling stories – is the best and maybe only way to practice empathy, and to generate empathy where there may not be any. I firmly believe that. And it may not be brain surgery and I may not be saving the world from climate change and other disasters, I may be only playing pretend for a living, but I think on a human to human, cellular level, there is no greater service I can provide than to move someone intellectually, emotionally, spiritually – giving them insight into a perspective that they didn’t have access to before, or reflecting and validating someone’s experience of life and making them feel less alone. That’s an invaluable service to humanity, I think.

But I’ve also recently come to realize the flip side, which is that it can’t just be all about the greater service either – it still has to be tied in with what it does for me. So I literally went all the way around. I went from “I do it just because I love it” to “No It has to have a greater meaning!” to “No, no, no, it has to be both. It has to be both simultaneously.” Otherwise, why bother?

As someone who’s worn many different hats in the industry, what are the roles you most identify with?

On most things I put: Actor/Producer, though to be honest I feel mad imposter syndrome calling myself a Producer. Firstly, it’s been a while since I’ve done any producing, and secondly the projects I’ve produced have been so eclectic – from a large scale concert for a string quartet to radio commercials, non-scripted TV shows to 99 seat musical theatre workshops to a site specific play in my house. I’ve tried a little bit of everything throughout the years, so I really feel more like a jack of all trades than anything else.

I think I just really enjoy being part of the creative process and getting things done – the feeling of accomplishment. I’ve found that the difference between Theatre and Screen work is that, as an actor, you’re not really let into the creative process much for Film and TV unless you’re there from the beginning as a series regular/one of the main characters. The only time I’ve felt the same “work family” feeling that I love most about Theatre while in the Film and TV industry was when I worked in production. I’ve never felt it as a co-star or guest star on set. I’d love to feel confident enough to just call myself a CREATOR one day.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Speaking specifically to acting – it requires a lot more nuanced skill than non-industry people think it does. There are definitely those folks who have a light inside them and are super charismatic and they can get off the bus in LA and be like “I’m an actor now!” and make it as a huge star. But if you’re not one of those people or – let’s face it – someone who’s won the genetic lottery, acting is a fucking hard skill. Actually, even for those super shiny people it still takes dedication and hard work. In fact, it’s taken me a long time to even feel comfortable calling myself an “artist” because to me acting feels like a blue collar craft or trade. Maybe because I’m from Theatre to me it feels like a thing that you roll up your sleeves to do with your whole body, and you need the hours and years of training to develop the skills to do it well. So it really bothers me when people don’t think you need to learn how to act or put in the work. I mean no one is saying “I love brushing my teeth, I’m really good at brushing my teeth. Minnesota is a state with great dental health, I’m going to go to Minnesota, and now I’m a dentist!” You can’t just do that. I feel like people underestimate the amount of craft it takes.

Auditioning and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Trying to do it “right” is the biggest pitfall that I can speak to personally. Thinking that what you have to do is go in and give them what they want, instead of going in and doing your thing.

Let’s talk about self tapes! Self tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I love tapes. I’ve loved them forever. A lot of my big Theatre gigs started with initial self tapes which then led to follow up in person callbacks. Some jobs were booked off tape alone – for Theatre and TV – and this started back in 2011 so I’ve been doing tapes for a LONG time. It’s how I’ve managed to grow a healthy Theatre career while based in LA. Sometimes for big auditions I will do two sessions. I’ll do a casual first session just to kind of see what I’m doing, so I can watch it and be like “That thought transition doesn’t quite connect…is there a stronger perspective I can have in this moment…ah I should cheat my face more towards camera there and lift my eyeline a bit.”  And then I’ll give myself at least another 24 hrs to digest before I do the final tape.

It’s a catch 22, really. I love that I can do as many takes as I want until I get one I’m super happy with, but it also means I can fall into a bad habit of doing too many and they are all only slightly different. So now I’m still letting myself record my rehearsals as much as I want, but when it’s time to tape, I only give myself 3-5 takes.

The biggest drawback is definitely not getting immediate feedback or that little bit of redirection in the room that might make the difference in your interpretation of the material. For TV shows that have been running for a while you can easily get a foundation for that world from old episodes, but if you’re auditioning for a new project there’s only so much research you can do. You can research the creatives, production company, network/studio etc. but otherwise you’re just making choices in the dark if it’s just you and your camera. This is why having a casting director who can give you a bit of guidance and insight is worth making your way through LA traffic to be in the room. I also miss making that personal connection with the casting office and the people.

As self tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I mean, the main difference is that now we as actors are responsible for the tech. We’ve traded the commute for the tech set up. I’ve done fewer live virtual auditions than I’ve done self tapes but I set up for them in pretty much the same way. The only thing I find a little awkward is being in the “waiting room” when everything is ready to go and I’m in frame and just waiting there. I don’t know when the session will suddenly turn on and I don’t want them to find an empty frame or catch me doing some weird warm up so I feel a bit stuck there.

The biggest piece of advice I have for actors who are really new to virtual auditions is to not be afraid of the tech. Do the best you can to make sure they can see and hear you, and you can see and hear them. That’s it – just start there. With practice you can slowly figure out how to make the process more comfortable for yourself.

Self tapes might have been around for a while but virtual auditions are so new for fucking everyone – on both sides, so if you don’t know what to do just ask. If you need to adjust your camera setup after the audition has already started and they have to watch you move the camera, it’s fine. It’s fine. All good. Don’t sweat it. We’re all just figuring it out.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self tape, what would it be?

Do whatever you want. Honestly, if you’re confident that you’ve done all the preparation you can beforehand, then do whatever the fuck you want. Trust it. Be free.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I’m not great at networking honestly…I tend to attach myself to people I’ve gone to school with or worked with or have some sort of shared experience with. Otherwise I’m pretty terrible at making lasting relationships with strangers. The only way I know how to grow my network is by working and I didn’t do ANY Theatre in 2020 so now I’m like “I have no new friends!” Usually I’m drawn to people who are capable of removing their personal ego from the process. If someone can have their version of fun during the process, and they’re open, that’s the kind of energy that makes me go, “ok you’re dope let’s be friends.”

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

Let’s be positive. I’m excited that there is a lot of initiative in making the arts more equitable. But we’ll see. Because, as it is, how many people of color can afford to continue in this field? So that’s what I’m excited about and my concern. And specifically, as it pertains to auditioning, I’m excited for there to be more perspectives on the other side of the table. Everyone from producers to writers to showrunners to casting directors…people of color, women of color in those positions who can see different perspectives of the same story. I would really like that to be a trend that continues instead of falling apart because we cannot afford it economically.

Mostly I’m just hoping that we continue to carve out more room for complex characters and intersectional perspectives on storytelling. Besides being beyond tired of the pervasive White lens, I’m also tired of the generalization of black and brown experiences. Our stories don’t always have to be rooted in oppression or immigration or trauma or violence – they are definitely a part of our cultural inheritance but they don’t define our experiences. I’m still waiting for a character that speaks to all the aspects of who I am. Most of what I go out for are characters that may be similar to me in personality, but I have yet to come across any material that reflects my personal journey.

Have you thought about creating something yourself? That speaks more to your experience? Personally?

That’s what I’m trying to do right now. Failing very spectacularly at it, but I’m just gonna keep plugging away because what else am I gonna do? Keep waiting around for someone else to create a platform that can showcase me the way I want? Knock on doors for jobs the rest of my life? No thanks.

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

I think it will be a combination of both virtual and in person. For 1st reads, whether it’s for film/tv or commercial, why not do it virtually? But for callbacks, and definitely by the time you get to something like a chemistry read, I should hope they bring us in the room. I don’t even mind a 1st audition for Theatre virtually as long as callbacks are in person. I’m sure beyond the efficiency aspects in terms of creative process, there are economic forces that will dictate what combination of the two we will experience in the future.

I think virtual auditions can, in part, make opportunities more accessible in terms of casting a much wider net in an actor search, but we also have to acknowledge that there are people who don’t have access to the hardware, the knowledge of the tech, or even adequate internet connection. I don’t know that the process can ever be as inclusive or equitable as we want it to be. But, speaking selfishly, virtual auditions and self tapes mean I can make travel plans, live my life, without always needing to stay in town just in case I get an audition.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

Don’t sweat it too hard. If they can see you, if they can hear you – that’s all you need. Don’t feel like you can’t do your best if you don’t have fancy 3 point lighting or a thing on your wall to let you pull down different backdrops. I mean, if you’re into that, if that’s your hobby, if you have the resources – great, go for it. But pretty much every single person I’ve ever heard from has said “At the end of the day, if the acting and the essence are what they’re looking for, it doesn’t matter how you fucking filmed it.”

Just be smart about the things that you can do. But don’t sweat the tech – focus on the acting. Literally, the only things you have to worry about are “Can they see you? Can they hear you?” If you’re not technically savvy AT ALL – like, you’re so analog you don’t know how to use a smartphone then…I don’t know. Get somebody to help you, I guess.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

If I had the answer I would have already reinvented it and be a millionaire. I guess for me, whatever makes everyone work smarter not harder, would be great, as long as we can keep encouraging more humanity so everyone feels like the system, process, space, etc. allows them to feel safe enough, free enough to do their best work.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

I would get a Nobel Prize if I had an answer to this question.

For so long now the doors to opportunities, to the process of how things get made, to where the money comes from – to basically the access of knowledge – has been closed. Most of us are just wandering around in the dark looking for a door but we don’t even know what the door looks like much less how to open it. Thankfully that’s shifting but, you know, will it ever be truly inclusive and equitable? I don’t know.

For most of my life I’ve thought the solution was: we need the predominantly able-bodied cisgender white males in power to point us to those doors that they’ve had access to for forever and show us how the locks work, how we can get a key made, where the hitches and squeaks are, and give us tips on how to walk through it without it caving in on us. We need that allyship, we need them to make room for other perspectives and educate the others in their community to do the same. To a certain degree I still think that’s true, but that’s because my default is learning how to operate within the system that already exists. I’m not good at generating my own material (though I’m working on it) – I was trained to play the game. But now with the ever evolving platforms for storytelling, the innovative narrative voices coming from all different communities – unapologetically nuanced and specific in their perspectives – there are people inventing their own games left and right and that’s hella inspiring. I think about it a lot – whether we should just be like “You won’t let us eat at your table? Fine. We’re all gonna go over here and make our own table and you’re not invited.” I really, optimistically, maybe naively, would just fucking love it if it was just one big fucking table that everyone sat at. But, you know, if their table won’t make any space, all we can do is go make our own. Maybe it’s a combination of both.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Rachel Reiss, CSA

Pronouns: She/Her

Occupation: Senior Casting Director at Liz Lewis Casting Partners, Secretary of CSA’s New York Board of Governors and chair of the CSA Tech Committee

Links to Rachel’s work:  

www.lizlewis.com

Rachel Reiss on Facebook

@rachelreiss on Instagram

Credits:

2019 Heller Award Winner for Best Northeast Voice Over and Commercial Casting

(Most recent) King of Knives, Painter

 

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Rachel Reiss and I’m a Senior Casting director at Liz Lewis Casting Partners, on the NY Board of Governors for the Casting Society of America, and Chair of the CSA Tech Committee. I was a total theater kid growing up. I attended a performing arts school and saw as many Broadway shows as I could. Though growing up with parents who were lawyers, I always had a logical side of my brain that wanted to put the pieces together behind the scenes. I realized during high school that I found more gratification in being a part of putting the full production together than just being on stage.

When did you set out on your current career path?

I fell into casting very early. I was home for the summer after my freshman year of college and was looking through all of my favorite Playbills. I kept seeing the same company listed under casting. This was before casting was a known career (before the American Idol days). So not knowing much about what casting was, I called the office, asked if they needed help for the summer, interviewed the next day, and started interning the following day. I spent time exploring other professions in entertainment, but knew pretty quickly that I had already found the career for me.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

I love bringing a creative’s vision to life. Members of a production have different ideas of how they see the final product. So I love materializing that while mediating those different ideas.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

I love bringing a creative’s vision to life. Members of a production have different ideas of how they see the final product. So I love materializing that while mediating those different ideas.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

I’ve found that many don’t understand the role of casting. Our job is to find the best talent for a project regardless of where that person comes from. We do not represent talent (at least in the major markets) and we don’t benefit financially from talent. And most importantly, we genuinely want all talent to succeed. The better the talent looks, the better we look. So we are rooting for every single actor that auditions for us. We are the middleman between talent and production, so we are advocating for both sides of the production.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

I think the audition is built up to be a high stakes scary one-shot only event. But I encourage actors to try to reframe that perspective. You love to act, that is why you are an actor. In an audition, you get to act, play, and be directed by someone who really wants you to succeed. And if you are not right for one project, we will keep you in mind for another. Actors who are less fearful in the audition room, are more likely to be the ones who keep getting called in.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I love that I can now see actors from all over the world. While I did this beforehand, quarantine has scattered everyone and made “local” artists more accessible. I am personally not a risk taker, so the idea that actors had to take a huge financial risk to move to NY or LA to be considered for a role pulled at my heartstrings. But now with self-tapes, there are fewer barriers to entry. I also love that it encourages talent to do multiple takes and watch their work. That is a wonderful way to learn and improve your craft. Though I hate that actors are now being asked to not just act, but produce, light, sound design, set design, etc. etc. As casting, we want you to focus on what you do best – act.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

Hard wire in your Internet!! Even if your Wi-Fi is good, it will most likely fail when you need it most. This gives you another level of security. The main difference between in-person and virtual casting is the chemistry. You will never be able to match the relationship building and chemistry you feel in the same room whether that is with casting, other actors, or with the production team. That is one of the greatest joys of casting, and why I love it so much. So I don’t think in-person will go away for that reason. But in the meantime, you don’t have to worry about gas, parking, subway, etc.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

HAVE FUN! We want you to be the best person we’ve seen all day. Truly.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

These both may sound redundant, but I’m looking for actors who are excited to be there, and approach the audition as a time to play, experiment and take direction. Also, I know so many professionals say this, but it’s true – strong choices. Even if those choices are wrong, it shows me you took the material, thought about it, and brought your unique perspective to the role. Again, even if it’s wrong, I am curious to see what you will do next.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I’m excited about the innovations in technology to improve the auditioning experience both on the casting and actor accessibility side. What concerns me, besides actors feeling like they need to produce, is that there will always be a socioeconomic barrier. As long as tech relies on the Internet, computers, phones, etc., there will be talented people who aren’t able to access this world easily. I am also so sad for all of the casting studios that are struggling or have gone under.

Have you thought about ways of combating this in your own work? Are there ways you see that Casting can help to open these barriers as much as possible?

Great question. In terms of actors feeling like they need to be producers, that is something I am actively trying to combat. In fact, stay tuned for a CSA panel that is in the works that will tackle this topic specifically. As for the socioeconomic issue, that is a tougher issue, especially as we live in a world where we rely on those same devices just to connect to one another. But I am trying to combat it in the small ways I can day to day. Whether that means managing client expectations so that talent can be on an even playing field with one another regardless of their setup/tech capabilities, having conversations with colleagues about the talents’ tech challenges that some casting professionals may not be aware of, speaking with casting platforms about these concerns, and devoting extra time to talent who may need the extra guidance and troubleshooting. But there is always more to be done and I’ll actively be looking for more ways to help.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

Virtual auditions/self-tapes were common before the pandemic, and increasingly so. The pandemic just expedited the upswing. I believe virtual auditions will continue after this for initial auditions/prescreens. But I think callbacks/chemistry reads will return to in-person once it is safe to do so.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

If you are a SAG member, they are offering their members help in this area. Their on-camera lab will zoom with you, be your reader, help with the upload, etc. If you are not a SAG Member, talk to casting! We want to help you focus on the acting, so if you need help with the technical details, we want to help you!

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

Great question! I’d have to think about this in more depth, but it would be based around actors having access to breakdowns/auditions without having to pay for equipment, membership, etc. But when I figure it out, I’ll let you know!

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

The more diverse storytelling and representation are, the more understanding and empathy our world will have. I’m really proud to be a member of CSA and involved with many of their awesome initiatives including open calls/classes for underrepresented artists, mentorships programs, training and education outreach to schools that are focused on uplifting underrepresented groups as well as educating students from a young age about what casting is, so that there is more diversity behind the table. There is more for me to do and learn to become a better ally, but as I do that, I will continue to advocate for diversity where I can in all areas of the industry. Casting is one part of the equation. So the more diversity there is in ALL of the roles of a production (both in front and behind the camera), the closer we will get to breaking down these barriers.

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Sammi Cannold

Pronouns: She/Her/Hers

Occupation: Theater and Film director

Link to Sammi’s work: www.sammicannold.com

Recent Press:

Playbill Feature – Dori Berinstein and Sammi Cannold at Work on Theatre Reopening Documentary, Featuring South Korea’s Phantom and More

Credits:

Forbes 30 Under 30 in Hollywood & Entertainment

Evita (New York City Center)

Ragtime (on Ellis Island)

 

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Sammi Cannold and I’m a theater and film director. My journey into the arts started early as I was fortunate to grow up in a theater/film/tv family — my mom produces theater and directs film and my dad produces tv and film. So, I was always around storytelling and, in a way, it was expected that I would go into the ‘family business.’ That makes it sound a bit clinical though and really, I think I decided to go into the arts, because being around it so much as a kid, it was hard not to fall in love with stories and storytelling.

When did you set out on your current career path?

If I trace it back, I think it was when I was in a summer arts program in my town when I was 13 and we were doing a production of Joseph that I was in. The head of the arts program, who was also directing the production, had to be in too many places at once, so he would leave the room and when he did, would leave me in charge for reasons I still don’t know. So, I started telling the other kids where to go on stage and ultimately, he credited me as the director of the production and hired me the next two summers to ‘direct’ You’re a Good Man Charlie Brown and Annie. I don’t think it would be accurate to call that ‘directing’ necessarily and I’m sure whatever I did on all three shows was not particularly great, but it certainly gave me the idea early that directing was something that I could pursue and wanted to pursue. Ultimately, I didn’t seriously pursue it until I got to college and started directing for one of the student theater groups on my university’s campus.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

I don’t have a specific mission statement per se, but I guess I try to navigate everything from a place of passion for the work and wanting to make an impact. What that impact is can change from project-to-project: sometimes it’s about helping an audience work through something, sometimes it’s about inspiring an audience to action, etc., but I always try to make things that have an impact beyond my own artistic interests.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

As a director, I feel so lucky in that I get to work with basically everyone! Directors touch almost every corner of a production, so I would wager that we get the most collaborators of any position other than perhaps the PSM. So it’s hard to say whom you end up working with most closely — sometimes it’s your leading actor, sometimes it’s the PSM, sometimes it’s the associate director, sometimes it’s a designer, sometimes it’s the music director, sometimes it’s the choreographer, sometimes it’s a producer, and so on. But most of the time, it’s all of the above and then some.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Directing–particularly directing large-scale musicals–is so much about crisis management and problem solving. I say this mostly for people who are interested in pursuing careers in direction, because I think it catches a lot of us off-guard when we start helming larger productions. Yes, a lot of directing is about the art on stage and a lot of it is about leading a rehearsal process, but a massive percentage of it is being presented with problems and having to fix them. And these problems can range from having to make peace between two actors who don’t get along, to figuring out how to work with a designer who’s not meeting deadlines, to figuring out how to find a middle ground when your audience is complaining the theater is too cold and your actors are complaining that it’s too hot. And then because I work a lot in site-specific theater, I get thrown a lot of problems that are very idiosyncratic — i.e. we need to take a ferry boat to get to the performance site, but this musician has severe sea-sickness, etc. But I’ve come to actually love the problem-solving aspect of the job — it keeps you on your toes and is a bit like a detective game. I think learning to love the problem-solving and coming into the room every morning ready for problems to be thrown your way is the only way to really be happy in a job that’s so defined by constant curve-balls.

Do you have any problems that come up consistently in your work on every or most projects? If yes, do you think the issue is systemic or something else?

Not really. Because every project is so different and has such a different slate of challenges. I’d say, in terms of broad categories — time management and the balance between art and commerce are always major areas of focus — not necessarily problems — but challenges.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

This is a very specific one, but it’s one I notice all the time: actors not having comprehensive books. I tend to understand if an actor is not as prepared as I’d hope they’d be on material provided by the creative team, because oftentimes, there are unrealistic preparation periods, massive amounts of material given, or extenuating circumstances in an actor’s life (including other auditions and callbacks or rehearsals/show schedules) — I always trying to remember that actors are not being paid to audition, so while they’re trying to put themselves in the best possible light, sometimes that’s harder than at other times.

That said, every auditioning musical theater actor can and should have a comprehensive book, because that preparation can happen outside of audition and callback timelines and is evergreen/helps in any situation. So often in auditions, I’ll ask an actor if they have something ‘more pop-y’ or ‘more legit’ in their books and the answer will be no. In that case, they’re shooting themself in the foot, because those questions are fairly standard and easy to prepare for. And I’m only asking them in hopes of helping the actor try to show a side of themself that I believe they have in them and would help them get the role, but they haven’t yet shown.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I like that self-tapes can open up an audition process to actors from anywhere. On Evita at City Center, we had actors sending in tapes from many different countries in South America and Europe and it was so exciting to be able to widen our search beyond whoever was able to physically be in New York.

That said, I don’t like that self-tapes create a situation in which an actor can obsess over and tailor their performance so that we’re only seeing what they think we should see. There’s something really wonderfully raw about being in the room with an auditioning actor — and I don’t mean that in the sense of catching their mistakes. More the opposite — that you find beautiful things in a performance when it’s not manufactured and on top of that, you learn a lot about a person both from how they perform when put on the spot and also how they operate in a room/when speaking directly to you vs. through a screen.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I think the difference is fairly straightforward: you don’t get to make a connection with the actor and vice versa — the actor doesn’t get to make a connection with you. Unless it’s over Zoom instead of self-tapes, I suppose, but I’ve only ever done that once and it was tricky because of a poor connection and whatnot.

In terms of advice, I guess I’d say — don’t let the fact that you’re doing this digitally flatten the more personal aspects of how you’d normally audition. If you’re someone who normally comes into the audition room with a lot of warmth, for example, bring that with you into the virtual audition room as well. We so badly want to know who you are and what makes you special and the virtual space can really make that tricky if you approach it too clinically.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

“Hang on tightly, let go lightly.” That’s not mine — it’s Anne Bogart’s theory that she talks about a lot in relation to directing, but I think it applies really nicely to auditioning as well. Come into the room holding tight to the choices you’ve decided you’re going to make with your material and being ready to make those choices with confidence and commitment, BUT also, be ready for something that the creative team or casting director says to cause you to let go lightly of the choices you’ve made. I find it most impressive and most telling in terms of providing intel on an actor’s dexterity when they can flip on a dime in an audition and make a completely different choice than the one they came in with.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

It really depends on the show and the role. I think actors get tired of hearing that adage that we really are rooting for you when you come into the room and so desperately want you to be the right person, but it’s true!

I think I’m often also surprised by who the right person is. I may go into an audition room with a certain conception of who I’m looking for and then someone will come and knock the socks off their audition and totally change that. So, sometimes it’s that they sang the material in an extraordinary way I’d never heard before, sometimes it’s that they had a take on the character that made it fresh and interesting, and so on.

I think also something that a lot of early-career actors usually don’t know is — if you’re auditioning for the ensemble of a Broadway or Broadway-sized show, we’re almost always looking–usually predominantly except in dance calls–at whether or not you can cover a principal role or multiple principal roles. The web of coverage on a show of that size is so complex that the majority of the ensemble usually has to be able to go on for a principal. So, if you think you fit a certain principal role description, it helps to make choices in your audition that might help us to realize that.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I’m excited to get back, but concerned about so much! I’m majorly concerned about access, especially when it comes to auditioning. It was hard enough to get into the room before all this and now we’re facing a situation in which there will almost certainly be a whole new level of capacity limits in terms of who and how many people can be in the room — particularly for dance calls. So, I’m concerned about what that means for newcomers.

What do you think is the most likely outcome to address this? More dance calls? Shorter dance calls so more people can get seen?

It’s a great question and neither solution is ideal, because every call costs money and time and a shorter call could make it such that a dancer can’t fully demonstrate what they’re capable of or doesn’t get enough focus at the front of the room/the creative team doesn’t learn enough. I think the former is the lesser of two evils all things considered though. I hope someone somewhere has a third solution that magically solves it all.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer

I think that virtual auditions will certainly be more prevalent, especially because so many members of our community have now spread out across the country and the world even. I hope that that will allow us to provide more access, but at the same time, I worry that it will become a crutch that will reduce our ability to be in the room with actors for that all important chemistry test — both for our benefit and for the actor’s benefit.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

I personally don’t really care about the aesthetic quality of one’s self-tape setup for exactly the reasons you mention. I think where it becomes tricky is in relation to sound; obviously, for singers, you want to make sure your voice sounds the same way it would in the room, and I know that can be pricey and tricky.

I think I’m probably not the right person to give advice on this as I’m not familiar with the ins and outs of a self-tape setup, but I guess from a practical perspective, I’d suggest borrowing equipment from others to the extent possible if you feel yours isn’t going to put you in the best possible light.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

One thing that I don’t like about the system is the practice of asking actors to prepare a lot of material and then only asking them to perform some of it. I understand why that happens — if a creative team learns what they need to learn on the first cut and time is tight, hearing the other two isn’t necessarily a productive use of time. But I think we have to ignore that impulse and always hear all the material, because I hate the idea of an actor preparing material and then us not honoring that preparation. So, I think we also need to think more critically about what sides we give an actor ahead of a callback so that we’re not claiming hours of their lives for nothing.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

I think this answer needs a whole novel written in response to it — and not by me! But because I’m in a position of power by virtue of being a director who hires people, it is something I think about a lot, particularly this year. So, I’ll answer specifically in relation to the audition process.

I’d say most importantly — I think we need to open up the pool. The oft-heard ‘well we didn’t cast an actor of color, because no actors of color came in’ just doesn’t fly. It is incumbent on us–those with hiring power–to do the outreach to the performers and communities that we are hoping to see in our rooms, because in many cases, they have received the message time and again that our rooms are not places that are welcoming to them. It’s our job–not theirs–to change that.

Do you have any changes you plan on implementing in your own process that might help other directors on that path?

Yes! I’ve been thinking a lot about putting the onus on myself to get to know actors beyond those who are making it into the audition room — by seeing more work in educational settings, seeing more work outside of New York City, keeping an eye out for actors who are putting out their own work online, etc. And then on a project-by-project basis, working with paid consultants or specifically chosen casting directors who are familiar with amazing performers who don’t get called in as much as they should.