Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Heidi Marshall

Pronouns: She/Hers

Occupation: Director, Independent Filmmaker, Acting Coach, Teacher

Link to Heidi’s work: 

www.heidimarshall.com

Credits:

MUSCLE: Short of the Week

Upcoming Feature: American Bubble

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

*Heidi provided her bio from her website*

After studying at Carnegie Mellon University and Pittsburgh Filmmakers, Heidi initiated and received the first directing internship at Humana Play Festival at Actors Theater of Louisville. Here, she directed Balm in Gilead and assisted John Jory, Anne Bogart, Tina Landau, and Lisa Peterson.

Heidi then completed a fellowship through The Drama League and headed to New York City, where she began working as an assistant for Bernie Telsey’s casting office. It was an “accidental” stopover in her 20s that led to a career launch: her first casting project was RENT. In the midst of RENT’s explosion into mega-hit status, Heidi became the show’s lead Casting Director—for seven years, she found and developed talent for its Broadway casts and national/international tours. Heidi also served as Casting Director for Baz Luhrmann’s La Bohème on Broadway for which the rotating cast all won a TONY Award for Excellence in Theater.

Baz’s artist mentorship led to a shift away from casting; Heidi was then hired as Resident Director on La Bohème, which had a critically acclaimed Broadway run. She later directed La Bohème for Baz at the Ahmanson Theater in LA.

Her work as a director continued when she was selected for the prestigious American Film Institute’s Directing Workshop for Women.

She returned to Broadway as an acting coach for The Color Purple and worked with Fantasia, Chaka Khan, and Bebe Winans. She also served as an Associate Director for The Adamms Family musical from development through opening night.

Today, Heidi’s directing experience spans film, television, documentary, theatrical events, regional theater, off-Broadway, and Broadway.

Her film Muscle has won 7 awards and has played at over 30 festivals worldwide, including Oscar-qualifying fests. She continues to work as a director, independent filmmaker, acting coach, and teacher.

Heidi actively champions inclusivity in front of and behind the camera. Over 4,000 actors have been taught and coached through her private studio in the past 20 years. She  purposefully surrounds herself with passionate actors, collaborative filmmakers, theater lovers, and driven artists who care about Community

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

To encourage artists to find their confidence and trust what each unique person brings to their art.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

Filmmakers

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Acting coaches and teachers put the actor first.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Not taking time to prepare the material. Self-sabotaging before the actual audition by taking prep shortcuts (especially in text analysis, running the scene with another person, setting up self tape space).

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

Like. Actor gets to work on the material in their own time and space. No commuting for everyone so there’s less inconvenience in everyday life.

Not like. Magic happens in the room. People don’t get to know each other as easily. It’s generally easier to read a personality in person.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

Hard to simplify my answers because I spend extensive time analyzing this in classes and coaching! I’d say the main differences are above.

Advice. Practice practice practice. Invest in a light and a background and get practicing. Prep. Film. Watch. Repeat.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

Make sure we can hear and see you! And then make eye contact with your scene partner off-camera. Play all of your focus to that other character. It will anchor you!

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

Word of mouth. I trust that amazing people lead me to amazing people.

When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

They’re prepped which shows their commitment. They’re into the work and love to play and change it up and keep discovering nuances. I love actors that are like shifting sands moment to moment. Always in flow.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular?

Actors are becoming more and more empowered every moment. They’re creating shows. They’re having a say in what stories and characters are represented.

What are your concerns?

I would like to see funding for the arts taken seriously in our country. Hopefully, the pandemic is bringing light to how the arts bring valuable and necessary culture and income to communities! We need to subsidize American artists in significant ways so that they can have resources to sustain their families and survive reasonably. Rarely, even before the pandemic, can artists make a living as full-time artists. Gone are the days of making a living in NYC from only theater (Broadway and Off-Broadway). The cost of living in a metropolis and solely being an artist/actor is a huge and often impossible challenge. Generally, being an actor requires outside income for any real sustainability. How can our government support the arts? I think the content created from artist commissions would be an incredible burst of expression and development in the arts.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? 

They will never go away. Here to stay. Already was happening. But now producers are justified in not needing to fly an actor in for a callback. It’s also just easier to see more people now. So probably more auditions will be available to more people.

Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer?

It’s finally causing the self-awareness of working the camera frame for the actor. Now they’re getting it!

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

I’ve got blogs on this! So I’d tell folks to Google and read tons of tips online.

And. Team up with others! Share resources! Equipment and being readers for each other!

Then. Start with a blank wall. Save for a light or rig the best strongest light sources you can! And use natural light from windows! Then. Save for a good smart phone with great camera and sound and the rest will be solid.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

No clue. I’m too entrenched in it to have an outside eye???

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all?

It all goes back to the stories being told. So I pass this to the writers and the ones making decisions about which projects to fund and distribute.

Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

Actors, don’t wait for the perfect role to come to you. Generate it.

 

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Dominque Kelley

Pronouns: He/Him/His

Occupation: Choreographer/ Dancer

Link to Dominique’s work: 

Dominique’s Choreography Reel

Credits:

Choreographer for Mariah Carey’s “Magical Christmas Special”

Choreographer for DCPA’s “Oklahoma!”

Choreographer for “Masked Singer”

 

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

My name is Dominique Kelley, originally from Bridgeport, CT, and I’m a choreographer, dancer, educator, and consultant. I played basketball, football, tee-ball, went to the museum weekly, but nothing held my attention like dance. My earliest memory of dance infatuation was trying to learn Michael Jackson’s “Thriller” video but being horrified by the zombie and werewolf transformations. My mother told me I would take my arm and block out the top of their bodies from view so I wouldn’t see their faces but still try to learn the choreography to the best of my ability.

When did you set out on your current career path?

I was discovered by Savion Glover and Dianne Walker when I was 12 years old. My mother “encouraged” me to bring my tap shoes to their performance and pulled some strings so I could show them my steps. Shortly after, they sent out an APB to all the dance competitions in my area and located me through one of my dance teachers at the time, Liza Minelli. I auditioned and booked my first job doing the European tour of “Black and Blue”, thus starting my dance career.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

My mission statement is “train it until you gain it” instead of “fake it ‘til you make it”. I love to train in many different genres of dance and inspire others to keep learning and research as many aspects of the business as possible. My goal is to empower others to enter the industry as prepared as possible while feeling empowered to maintain their artistic point of view.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

I love working with non-dancers. Whether actors, recording artists, athletes, or even the laymen: I enjoy translating pedestrian movement into dance pedagogy. I love educating educators also. My platform is inclusion and decentralizing white supremacy in dance as well as body positivity, mental health support, and body maintenance. Growing up, many trauma responses were “chalked up” to a rite of passage and I try my hardest to dispel that myth.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Ironically, being a choreographer is the most competitive job in the world. There are few that can actually sustain a living from just choreographing alone. The pool of choreographers is soo small so whenever you do see someone who can thrive doing this profession deserves acclaim.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

The most common pitfall that actors make with auditions is a twofer for me. Preparation is key as well as being present in the moment. Memorizing sides, researching the role, warming up, arriving on time are all important to getting into the room with confidence. After you are inside, that’s where you have to drop into character and leave all the nerves outside. Sometimes, I love to give actors notes to see how they can modify their reading, abandoning all the things they’ve rehearsed before they got there.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I love watching self-tapes because I see the best of the auditioner. One can look their best, sound their best, and do as many takes as necessary until one feels comfortable with the final product. I dislike not seeing the person in the room and getting a sense of their vibe and energy. You can’t get or give immediate feedback nor get a sense of how quickly the actor can adapt to situations which can be a bummer.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

The advice I have for people who have less experience with virtual auditions is ask for help. Many tv/film/musical theater actors you’ve seen have gotten hired for work from a self-tape. In an ever-changing world that is becoming more and more technically advanced, don’t get left behind and lose out on work that you would be perfect for. If you are someone who likes to prepare and do it one time, then do that. Do a “one and done” and send that.. After making sure you’ve checked the frame and audio first of course.. haha.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

Breathe… literally breathe. Oxygenate your brain. Slow down your pulse. Take deep cleansing breaths. Quickly meditate and go for it.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I only try to expand my network by being myself and having an honest, human interaction. Although it sounds cliche, asking people about themselves and finding common ground leads to better interactions instead of boasting, bragging, and “schmoozing”. We see right through it… And by we… I mean me… When I interact with a performer, I like honesty and confidence. Whether it’s a good day or a bad day, I love to know and see how it affects your performance and point of view in and out of the audition room.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

What excites me about the future of auditions is the thought of it coming back. The pandemic has tested everyone’s patience and perseverance so the thought of a long audition process seems like a birthday party at the moment. The reservations I have about auditions in the future are fielding expectations, especially for people not computer savvy in front of and behind the camera.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer

I believe we will keep the virtual audition process because now no one has to actually go into an office to hold the audition. Not only can people film from home but the creatives casting do not have to leave the luxury of their homes to hire talent. I enjoy virtual auditions because I can cut my audition time in half. When holding dance auditions, they can last 10 hrs. Virtually, I can take less time and get through more auditions.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

Use your cellphone. Find a clean wall behind you. Invest in a ring light with a stand if you don’t feel comfortable with someone in the room filming you. We can see through the environment if you give a riveting performance. Remember, we want you to be wonderful and get the job. We have the same goal… To hire you.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

I would love to find more avenues to source marginalized communities into the room to be seen. It starts there.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

I believe we need to meet people where we are. I have no clue how to do so but I will support the cause wholeheartedly. As someone who was found by unconventional means, I’m all for it. The more the merrier. No actor left behind…

 

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Taibi Magar

Pronouns: She/Her

Occupation: Director, Cultural Worker

Link to Taibi’s work: 

An album of the songs from Capsule, a theatre-film that premiered at Under The Radar/The Public Theater, that I co-directed with my husband, Tyler Dobrowsky, and the incredible writer/performers Peter Mark Kendall and Whitney White. An album I co-conceived with Daniel and Patrick Lazour call Flap My Wings: Songs From We Live In Cairo. Coming up on April 15 – May 9, a theatre-film, of A Play For The Living In The Time of Extinction by Miranda Rose Hall, at Baltimore Center Stage.

Credits:

Underground Railroad Game (Ars Nova)

Is God Is (Soho Rep, 2018 Obie Award)

We Live In Cairo (A.R.T.)

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

I’m the daughter of an immigrant. I’m an artist. And I’m a cultural worker. My parents were worried about me as a child, and their psychic suggested that “Taibi should get into theater.” Hilarious.

When did you set out on your current career path?

When I was 17 years old, my acting teacher told me I was a director. I visited his rehearsal room later that night, and there it was: the rest of my life.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

My work is deeply invested in the skill of Imagination. I believe this skill is the theatre’s incredible gift to culture and humanity because Imagination and Social Justice are deeply intertwined. We have to be able to imagine it in order to fight for it.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

I teach directing for my alma mater, Brown/Trinity MFA Program. And since the pandemic, I have been co-producing with my husband and artistic partner, Tyler Dobrowsky.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Just because us theater makers love what we do, does not mean it isn’t also a job. The theatre-industrial complex takes advantage of this in countless ways.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Not even attempt to get off-book. When an actor is off-book I am naturally going to find them more engaging because I can see their face. Also, make physical choices! I want to be sure you will be collaborative in generating behavior with me.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

I find self-tapes are not as draining to watch as a full day of auditions. Probably just because of the amount of energy I/we give to make the actor feel comfortable (which I love to do, it just is kind of draining). But, it’s a double-sided coin, because you also don’t get that liveness, that sense of being that exists in the in-between moments of an audition.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

I think virtual auditions are really valuable because it really opens up the field. Actors do not have to be in the same city, or at a specific place at a specific date/time. As someone who does a lot of work with actors of color, this is really exciting. The only drawback is that because of the framing, and lack of space or adequate sound, I don’t think virtual auditions give you the truest sense of their physicality, how much space the actor is capable of taking up. My advice for those new to virtual auditioners? Commit! I think these things are sticking around. Get the equipment that helps you make it an easy process! Do a lot of them so you can get good at it! And lastly, for me as a director, really getting the maximum amount of body in your frame is helpful.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

Treat it like a rehearsal. A well-prepped rehearsal. I’m treating it like one, so you can too.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I watch things! I go see a lot of shows, I watch as much TV/movies as I can. I keep my ears open when people talk about what they’ve seen, if they pull out a particular actor’s performance, I’ll look them up later. What inspires me? Performers inspire me when they have a point of view about the work and the world. I don’t consider actors blank slates, I don’t want them to be blank slates. I want the whole of their humanity brought to the table, what makes them giggle, what makes them enraged. I want to sense an honest connection between the performer and the material. I also wanna know you’re gonna fight for this character. There’s a great quote I use a lot from Anne Bogart: “The actor directs the character, the director directs the play.” I’m also just looking for someone who I can talk to and enjoy exchanging ideas with. We don’t get paid enough to not enjoy going to work.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I’m excited that because it is easier to submit (not limited by time or physical space) it might open the pool of actors more. However, because it’s easier to submit, I worry actors will be asked to audition more. I think actors should get paid to audition!

We really appreciate you bringing up this point. For performers there can be a lot of fear that if they turn down an audition they’ll never be asked again. In a world where actors are being asked to audition even more this could be exacerbated. In your experience is this something they should be worried about? How do you feel about performers turning down your auditions?

Oh, I don’t keep track of who turns down an audition. Sometimes I’m puzzled, if I really think the artist would be excited by the material. But I generally assume they have other things going on, or there are other offers on the table, or maybe they can’t afford to take a terrible paying off-Broadway contract. Maybe casting directors think about it differently than I do, but I certainly don’t hold it against an actor in the slightest.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer

They will be very prevalent. I predict most first rounds will be virtual/self-tapes. The things I prefer is that I can take breaks more often, and I can rewatch in order to give better notes for callbacks.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

All that technical gak helps, but the performance will shine through. Just get enough light on ya.

If you could rebuild the audition process however you’d want, what would it look like?

I think we would pay actors to audition! It’s a hell of a lot of work. I know the rationale is probably “well, people don’t get paid to apply for regular jobs” But we’re not regular jobs! And a regular employee doesn’t work in an industry where they have to get a new job every 2-3 months! I also wish the industry worked in a way where I could spend more time with actors. Unfortunately, as it stands, to make ends meet I’m usually running show to show and barely have time for auditions. It’s a lie to pretend we can get to know each other in 10 minutes.

That’s totally true. How do you personally get to know people, and folks you want to work with, without overextending yourself?

I call or write people they’ve worked with. I have to make sure it’s someone I trust, and someone who has worked with them extensively. Usually I try to make contact with a director, but otherwise. another actor or stage manager they’ve worked with. I also make sure to have time for conversation in the audition, it’s not much but you can get a little bit of a feel of who they are.

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

We need casting directors of color. Lots of them. Lots and lots and lots of them. It’s the only way. And pay people to audition! Have I said that enough???

 

Thank You, 10 is an interview series brought to you by Audition Cat, an upcoming app with career management tools for the professional auditioning performer. Each article interviews an industry professional with a different experience and opinion about what the future of auditioning looks like. Through these conversations, we hope an image will appear about what’s next for the industry, and what it aspires to be. Have someone you’d like to be considered for an interview? Reach out to us Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Judy Bowman, CSA

photo credit Peter Hurley

Pronouns: She/Hers

Occupation: Casting Director, et al. (teacher, creative team member)

Links to Judy’s work:

www.judybowmancasting.com

IMDB Page

Credits:

“Big Dogs” season 1(Amazon)

“I’ll Be True”(upcoming feature film)

“A Matter of Choice” Off-Broadway, because it was a small production that launched a couple of great careers.

China Dreams: workshop with Stefani Kuo

Jess McLeod for the Kitchen Theatre Co/Ma-Yi Theater.

Hurricane Bianca (feature film)

 

Getting to Know You

Who are you? What’s your artistic background / what started your journey into the arts?

Judy Bowman, Casting Director. I Love new plays, old plays, indie films, great writing, all kinds of people doing all kinds of things. I was an actor as a young person and through college: very passionate about it. Eventually, I realized that I was equally excited by very talented people, and I was just as fulfilled by working with actors, directors and writers, as I was being on stage. I am glad I studied, though, and had those performance experiences. It helps me tremendously with my work in casting. I am also a proud Queer Woman, with North African and Lithuanian/Polish/Ukrainian Jewish Heritage. I identify as an American from the East Coast. I am a dog lover, and a whiskey drinker. I come from a family of immigrants who fled violence in their homelands to find freedom in Whales, South Africa and The U.S in the early 20th century. I support the Black Lives Matter movement and stopaapihate.org politically, emotionally, and financially, and will stand in front of and next to any human being who is threatened by injustice. My answers below, reflect my personal point of view and experiences, and no one else’s.

When did you set out on your current career path?

Upon graduating from Tufts University with a double major in Drama and Spanish, I began looking for work in the industry in New York. A friend of a friend notified me of an assistant job in a talent agency. My work there exposed me to Casting Directors and producers. I left the agency job and began freelancing with a few different casting offices. So, graduation 1992, Agency 1992, and Casting 1993 until now.

What is your “mission statement” as an arts professional? What drives you to continue in this industry?

My mission statement is, and has always been, to work on interesting and unique projects with a talented diverse team, and to bring actors of all backgrounds & qualities, with good skills, intelligence, and creativity to collaborate. I have been lucky enough to work in a way that I choose with all kinds of teams on all different projects. Most of my projects fit this criteria, and I understand exactly why they’ve approached me. I work extremely hard, and I am able to introduce directors and writers to artists who can realize their vision, challenge their preconceived notions, and elevate and/or complement the material. I love bringing people together. Often, the relationships that I have introduced lead to lifelong collaborations. Actors find artistic homes. Writers find theaters who want to continue to produce their work. It’s very satisfying and fun. I want my creative team to be excited and inspired, rather than anxious and frustrated, and looking at casting sessions with dread, lol. My early influences were working with Jose Rivera on his early plays, the Humana Festival, A.R.T, and I was able to explore those at INTAR & LAByrinth; the work I saw at Ma-Yi inspired me as well. These experiences fulfilled and reinforced my mission statement. I have always gravitated towards books and plays that are about a specific place in the world, or a piece that had all kinds of people in it. Playwrights like Naomi Iizuka, Mona Mansour, Rajiv Joseph, Dominique Morisseau, Stephen Adly Giurgis, Ayad Akhtar, Carlos Murillo: they knew that people from different communities or specific communities would understand their work and stories. At that time, this was spearheaded by the writers: the material had to be there, to dictate what the cast might look and feel like. INTAR and Ma-Yi had writers’ workshops that developed stories that were meaningful to them personally. This work that was written for, by, and about people from a part of world or a part of the country; this work and these writers were specifically supported and encouraged to develop the stories they wanted to tell. I wanted to connect performers with those writers, and provide a talent pool that could connect with them on a much deeper level.

Working with Cleveland Play House on “The Invisible Hand” with Pirronne Yousefzadeh; “The Convert”,  “Familiar”, and “An Octoroon”  at Woolly Mammoth;  working with Michael John Garcés (from INTAR, to Humana Festival, to Woolly Mammoth, Arizona–we’ve had a long collaboration!) , Chay Yew, Nataki Garrett–these are very meaningful experiences for me.   Recently, working on “Molly Sweeney” with Keen Company, casting a blind/low-vision actress in the lead role; this was very meaningful to me, to work on it, and see the production this way.   It’s been great to work with all communities and continue to get to know their members and cross-pollinate.  Getting to know more low-vision/blind performers allowed me to introduce them to other projects that were not specifically written for someone like them.   If someone comes to me, they tend to know what my mission is, and that they are going to get a casting session full of all kinds of actors, some of which they may not have had access to in the past.

Within your artistic profession, what other industry roles do you work with most closely?

Producers, writers, directors, Artistic Directors. Agents, and actors.

What do you wish was more widely understood about your profession?

Casting Directors are hired because a creative team does not know–or cannot access–talent on their own. We should be thought of like a set or costume designer. We are skilled, creative, and should be included and utilized to the fullest. There are times we are looked at as an Admin, just here to set up appointments from a list that magically appears, and that is obviously not what we are trained to do, nor is it satisfying or the best use of our skills. One of our inside jokes: We are the first person to be thought of, and the first person they forget. From invitations to the first rehearsal, to being left out of the program, there are times that we feel like once the actors are hired, we cease to exist. I have had many good experiences, but the timing of our work in pre-production creates a feeling that no one remembers how the actors got into the project. As for actors, I think performers do understand our profession. But because we intersect with so many different aspects of the industry, they sometimes forget that we are part of the design team, hired to do a job. I take a lot of chances in casting, but sometimes we cannot. We might have 1 casting day to set multiple roles, and have to whittle down our choices. These limits are dictated by the budget of the production, or the time the director has to see people. While we often create a huge opportunity for actors, we must also provide a selection of talent that is in line with what has been discussed in our creative conversations. The limits of age ranges and skill requirements; these must be taken into consideration. While we have some creative leeway, we are indeed being hired to provide what has been discussed. We do not make the final decision about who is cast. Sometimes we have a lot of influence, and other times, no. Perhaps a more compassionate understanding of each others’ hardships, goals, and obstacles would be something to strive for? I read some Facebook posts from actors who’ve had bad experiences in their day-to-day auditioning. I always give those a hard “think” about how that could have been avoided, if that has ever happened in my sessions: always to take into consideration what it’s like in someone else’s shoes. Casting Directors also have challenges to navigate: a very shy director who doesn’t give adjustments, a difficult creative team, an anxious or inexperienced writer, or relationships between the team that are tense. If we are able to understand each other’s jobs, that might lead to empathy on both sides. There are times I’ve felt that actors are mostly concerned with me helping them to get an agent, rather than what I might offer them in advice or conversation. There are times I feel like my side job is to help actors get an agent. I understand why they ask me, but it’s not always possible and I’d rather give advice about Casting. As for laypeople understanding us, I often have to explain the difference between a Talent Agent and a Casting Director. We do different jobs, though we work together very closely.

Auditions and You

In your experience, what is the most common pitfall that actors make with auditions?

Don’t give a “general”, “middle-of-the-road” read. Make choices that show your intelligence, creativity, personality and soul. The level of competition is high; treat it like a callback. Know that you need to do more than just walk through it. Actors who consistently do well are those that come in with a Point of View. Their preparation includes thought: not just memorization or making it all seem logical. They add to it. Musicians don’t just play a piece perfectly: they use artistic interpretation and add character to the piece. That is artistry and showing that you are a creative, thinking individual. If directors don’t like that, then maybe you don’t want to work with those directors. I sure don’t. We want each actor to interpret and digest and show us something unique. 2. Don’t apologize for your choices before you make them, or ask too much permission. You have agency and dignity to show us your best with confidence. If you have a question, ask the Casting Director outside the room: very often we have a good answer for you, or will say, “Ask the writer or director in the room”: your question might be the same question every actor has asked, indicating some confusion in the material. Let us help you. 3. If you are having problems, tell us what those are before you come in the room. If you haven’t been able to prepare or you are running late to see us, or you weren’t able to read the script due to extenuating circumstances, it’s always better to tell us outside the audition room so we can help you. Sometimes we can bring you in on a different day or give you some guidance. 3. When you finish your audition, try to project the fact that you will be a good person to work with. Say goodbye in a professional way, the way you would leave a job interview.

Let’s talk about self-tapes! Self-tapes have become more and more common for auditioning actors, even more so during the pandemic. What do you like about self-tapes? What do you dislike about them?

It’s most important that we see you and hear you. Your reader should be helpful: not louder than you, or distracting. Most actors should be comfortable with tapes by now–we were using them before the pandemic. If you’d be happy sending your tape to HBO or Lincoln Center or Broadway, then your tape is probably pretty good. Feel free to send 2 takes of 1 side, if you want to offer a wider shot, or another choice, especially if it’s a theater audition. The Team might not need to watch both takes, but at least they have the option. If you self-adjust, they might not need to do so much work in the callback, and it puts you ahead of those actors who only did 1 take.

As self-tapes become more and more prevalent in the industry, for your profession, what are the main differences between in-person and virtual auditions? What advice do you have for actors who have less experience with virtual auditions?

There is no substitute for in-person auditions. I have worked on projects that have used self-tapes auditions and callbacks on Zoom, but there is still nothing like being in the room together, where you can look each other in the eye. Or shake hands, and have a real-time interaction. It becomes very clear when an actor is uncomfortable in a Zoom audition. Practice makes perfect, and you will learn how to appear at ease, know where to ‘look’, and how to navigate those conversations, even on Zoom. Practice with your friends, record the Zoom, and watch it back. It should be very obvious where there is room for improvement. Once you figure out the tricks of it, and establish a routine, it will seem as comfortable as an audition in the room–IF those are comfortable at all! Lol.

If there was one piece of advice you’d give to any actor right before an audition or recording a self-tape, what would it be?

Make a plan. Have a road map. Think about how you might train for playing an instrument, or a softball game. You practice, and then in the game, you try to relax and focus and do what you did in practice. If you’re taping, do all your preparation, rehearse it, and record. WATCH IT AFTERWARDS. Think, “would I hire this person? Is the performance level strong enough? Would I definitely need a callback after seeing this person? What questions does my performance provoke? About the work, and about me?” So, prepare, and evaluate yourself. After every audition, think–while the experience is fresh–what would I do in the callback, if I get one? Make a few notes about the experience, what the director said in the room, and if the CD gave you any notes for your callback. If there are no notes from the CD, then you have your remembrance from the audition written down, and your goals to expand on that and evolve what you already did.

How do you expand your “network”? When you interact with a performer for the first time, what inspires you, and what are you looking for in this initial interaction/audition to convince you to bring them back?

I love seeing work in different spaces with different companies. I watch a ton of tv and film, and work with a lot of emerging writers and directors. I meet some actors in a teaching exchange or in a showcase. I am also open to recommendations. Some of my creative team have introduced me to actors I didn’t know before, by requesting that they are added to the session. Certainly the conservatory showcases are helpful to meet who’s coming out of those programs. The most fun for me, though, is to meet new actors in auditions. I don’t bring in the same group of actors for everything, so I meet new people all the time. When I was coming up, there was a Casting professional who said he was only interested in actors who’d been on Broadway. I responded in the opposite way: I like to meet actors BEFORE everyone knows who they are. It’s very fun to introduce an actor to an experienced director, and hear them say, “wow, where did you find this person?” Many of these actors, or even the audition reader, make connections with the creative team as we’re working, and go on to work with that writer or director on future projects. It’s a high form of flattery when an actor who came in for my auditions, whether or not they got the job, met someone on the creative team during that process, and ends up working with that team member in future readings, auditions, or is hired by them for other projects. Those are the best seeds to plant.

Looking to the Future

What excites you about the future of the arts and auditioning in particular? What are your concerns?

I am glad that inclusivity is being demanded and expected, instead of some of us ‘specializing in diversity’. I have always liked that technology is allowing for a greater amount of actors to participate in the casting process. Because we aren’t able to be in the same room together, we are interacting with actors all over the country. Some of the projects I’ve cast during the pandemic were audio only, or workshopped, and we could easily work with actors from all over. Doing projects that are working on Zoom or being shot instead of with a live audience presents a different way of working: It can be less rewarding, but there is an ability to explore and develop work, if that’s what you want to do. Now more than ever, I think the Unions should be completely overhauled and brought up to the modern era: not just because there’s a pandemic. Actors’ health insurance is one aspect that should undergo serious reform. This year has exposed so much about our process that should be brought up to date and reconsidered. I am certainly concerned for the future of the arts, theaters, security for actors. During this time, one can’t help but to re-evaluate everything we do and how we do it. Not just in our industry: we are all struggling. Restaurants, hospitality, anyone who has to work for a living or wants to interact socially. There was a time where if you were in the arts, you were ‘always struggling’. Now, everyone is and it’s times like these where maybe some financial sectors can relate better to one another. We can see how our success and failure is so connected and relies on one another.

 

Post-Pandemic, how prevalent do you think virtual auditions will be / what role will they play in the day-to-day casting process? Are there aspects of virtual auditions you’ve found that you prefer

There are directors who are comfortable casting off of a tape, and some who don’t like it at all. It’s going to be dependent on who we’re working with, but it’s also our duty to shed light on the process. We can explain what is possible, and what the limitations are. I don’t want live auditions to turn into an excuse for not getting in the room with actors, or doing it virtually to save money on a plane ticket. It’s important that these things continue to happen in person. But if it’s the difference between not doing it and doing it, we can be a good intermediary so that everyone is comfortable. I’ve had to explain how we do it on tape so many times this year: once they understand how it’s done, they really enjoy being able to see and hear actors, even in a pandemic. We all feel grateful that we CAN make work if we want. Casting Directors may have to do more hand-holding, but it does bring us together even more: we are able to see and watch actors, and re-watch their work. We won’t forget the audition at the end of the day, because it’s recorded! Ha. But the pandemic should not be an excuse to not cast authentically. Many theaters are using audio productions of their plays. Just because we can’t see the actor, does not mean we won’t be casting representatively. Just recently, I cast the role of Nabo in Lynn Nottage’s LAS MENINAS. He is written as a man from Africa who has dwarfism. I cast an African-American man who is a Little Person. However, a lot of submissions were of average height. Some had notes saying that they do a lot of voiceover or IF I didn’t find a LIttle Person or short-statured actor, to consider these actors. The aspect of the voiceover was clearly misleading about what we were seeking, but I was as clear in the breakdown about what and who we were seeking. Luckily, there are organizations for Diversity and Inclusion, and specific agents that specialize in representing talent with unique qualities, getting those actors seen for projects that are specifically seeking them, as well as any other project that doesn’t specify a particular physicality.

Self Tape setups are a financial and technical obstacle for many in our industry. For those who either can’t afford or don’t feel confident in the technical knowledge to use self-tape equipment, what advice can you offer to give them the best audition?

I just heard a very accomplished Casting Director say that it doesn’t matter that the tape looks high-tech, and that she tells her clients the hard truth that it’s more important that we see an actors’ work initially, than expecting them spending tons of money and time to make their tape look like it was shot on a film set. Casting Directors are also complaining that they spend hours editing tapes so they look high-end. I’ve also heard some CDs say they feel compelled to call actors who send in beautiful-looking tapes to say that it doesn’t have to be so high-end! This confirmed what we already knew: we need those tapes to come in, sometimes quickly. It’s more important that we receive a tape with good choices on it—as long as we can see you well and hear you well. If it looks beautiful but the acting choices aren’t exciting, what’s the point? It’s an audition: Not a film shoot. It’s not the actors’ job to spend a lot of money on a crazy edit. Basic decent lighting, and not showing every personal item in your house in the background. We can lead the charge with our clients and make sure they come to it from a place of gratitude, rather than “why doesn’t this look amazing?” The answer is, “it’s a pandemic. You’re lucky these actors are able to tape for you at all.” If you are tech-savvy, you are certainly ahead of the game and it may be very easy to re-do your reel, or work on your website, or make a self-tape that looks very professional. Self-tapes are not a big deal if you know what’s important. For some, it’s daunting. Better to learn now, while things are slower. There surely are resources with SAG-AFTRA and AEA. I’ve heard that SAG-AFTRA has given free studio time to self-tape, and have other resources to help its members. Actors have networks with each other to be readers for each other when they need them. Some CDs have put out a document that lists the best points of self-taping, shared on the CSA website. These tools are out there, waiting for anyone who needs them.

Here are some resources we found:
– Casting Society of America – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s5UJ_l0Dyw
– SAG-AFTRA – https://www.sagaftra.org/casting-directors-dish-self-tape-tips
– ActorAesthetic.com – https://www.actoraesthetic.com/blog/makeshift-selftape

The arts industry has inherent barriers to entry including but not exclusively race, socioeconomic status/background, gender, disability, and more. How do you think the industry should evolve to make it a more accessible, equitable, and intersectional space for all? Especially how can we apply this to the audition process?

Personally, I work on a lot of projects that are seeking to cast actors of a specific identity.  Legally, we are not allowed to ask actors how they identify.  It is both to protect the actor, and also to make the process fair.  For example, we tell directors that they are not allowed to ask an actor their age.  We have to talk in terms of how the actor presents. Some actors read older or younger than they actually are.  So, we cast actors fairly, based on how they present.  We explain that the audience won’t be looking them up on the internet to check their ages.  However, if we are casting a role that is written for an actor to play a person who is non-binary, we are not allowed to ask someone how they identify.  If we have a relationship of trust and respect, most performers will tell us or will proudly identify.  I’m sure there may be moments where that actor doesn’t want that identity to be used to exclude them from playing characters that are not non-binary.    We live in a discriminatory, unfair, and litigious world.   So, when we are seeking to cast actors authentically, it would be nice to easily connect with those actors who are comfortable enough to say, “here I am.  This is me.  I am right for this role.”  And know that it will not eliminate them from future roles that they could play if the other qualities fit.  But employers are afraid to be sued for descrimination, and actors don’t want to be biased against.  I do think that dialogue should be opened, but it is up to the actor and their comfort level.   CDs can research organizations, Facebook groups, and get recommendations from our colleagues.  I have not discussed this with Breakdown Services, but there are limitations on what we can say in a breakdown and how we say it, from a legal standpoint.   Often enough, our breakdown might not reflect exactly what we are seeking.  Or we are afraid to say it.  If we are seeking ONLY actors of color, we are counselled to say “any ethnicity”, which might not really be what the team wants.  Because of our inability to legally express what we are seeking, without excluding others, we should consult with descrimination attorneys to get closer to authenticity in representation.   We are able to say in a description, “Actors who self-identify as…”   When casting a role written for a Little Person or short-statured actor, I often have to have second and third conversations with agents and actors about what we really want and why that’s important.  They want to contribute to this process fairly and no one wants to waste anyone’s time.  But often, what we are able to say in a breakdown is limited by the legality of language used.   We must take responsibility for doing this better, and collaborating better and finding ways around it, rather than accepting what the limits are.  Things that are or were once there for protection are now a potential barrier for the right people getting into the right rooms.  The casting community is having a lot of discussions about this BY, WITH, and FOR the BIPOC community so we can all work together to find work-arounds and create more comfort and authenticity.    If there are limits in our process, we try to find ways to get around them, or include a legal perspective so we can all get what we so desperately want and need from the casting process.   Instead of saying, “the director makes the final decision” and that we are not responsible, I am optimistic that we are standing up and calling things out when they are wrong, racist, inauthentic–discovering that we have more power than we thought.  If we all do this, then things can change for the better.  Members of the creative team who are narrow-minded and racist will no longer be able to enforce their stupidity if all Casting Directors prioritize justice and fairness in the process.  Sign-in sheets alone have graduated from listing your social security number and agent phone to your preferred pronouns.  We are moving that forward even more, trying to welcome information that will only help the process.   Granted, my interactions are not on the highest Hollywood level: but hearing from THOSE CDs, and what they have to say?   It’s invaluable to all of us.  There are some amazing discussions with and by my colleagues in CSA.  Very proud to be among them.

It is also why I added how I identify in the first paragraph, so my point of view is also understood.  I should not be thinking that someone might not hire me because I am gay, Jewish, or have any of the above identities.   It should be seen as an asset, and something I would, in today’s climate, be proud to say.